After years of reluctance, company announces iPhones will support RCS messaging standard

Forums › Apple iOS and devices › After years of reluctance, company announces iPhones will support RCS messaging standard

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#3160998 18-Nov-2023 21:58

PolicyGuy:

Why would I want to use RCS?
If I want to send a "rich" content message, I use Signal*, or sometimes email.
When I just want to send a basic text message, I use SMS.
When my doctor wants to remind me about an appointment, they use SMS; when my financial services providers want me to authorise a transaction, they all use SMS; and so on. Absolutely none of these interactions would be improved by making them "rich".

Also, I suspect that RCS would use my "data" allowance rather than the unlimited SMS messages included in my monthly account fee.

So, I ask again: Why would anyone want to use RCS?

Perhaps if the annoying Doctors and hairdressers and other appointment SMS stuff would use RCS, it would be better since the reply would not be to a short code that usually is not free from your included unlimited SMS, and if you are on kogan and similar providers cannot reply to anyway.

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#3161000 18-Nov-2023 22:59

farcus:
sir1963:

I am betting that as soon as RCS gets E2EE and Google can not data mine it, they will deprecate it just like they have so many other things that have ended in the google graveyard.

It already is E2EE

Which will be a very difficult sell for NZ operators to implement under TICSA.

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jarledb

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#3161056 19-Nov-2023 03:17

farcus:

Depends how you look at it . . . because if the EU hadn't made them do it, there was no indication that they were going to do it.

What would those indications have been?

Apple doesn't talk about future products, so they wouldn't have said a word about it before launch either way.

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#3161195 19-Nov-2023 15:34

PolicyGuy:

I'm an Android user and I sometimes get nagged by Google to turn RCS on when I'm trying to send or receive an SMS / txt message.
I always say "NO!"

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

sir1963

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#3161201 19-Nov-2023 16:18

farcus:

sir1963:

I am betting that as soon as RCS gets E2EE and Google can not data mine it, they will deprecate it just like they have so many other things that have ended in the google graveyard.

It already is E2EE

No, Google has their own addition that does encryption.

given Googles entire business model is based on collecting as much information about you that they can for use in advertising and data sales "to select partners", I would NOT trust it.

eracode

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#3161350 20-Nov-2023 06:48

eracode:

Apple are not going as far as allowing the Messages app to be installed on Android or other phone platforms. They’re going to adopt the RCS standard which will enable many QOL alignments but it sounds like we will still see the blue/green message distinction.

Confirmed here.

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farcus

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#3161634 20-Nov-2023 15:32

sir1963:

No, Google has their own addition that does encryption.

. . .

I can't make out what you mean by "No"?
It does have end to end encryption. Just because it was developed by google doesn't mean it isn't valid.

The E2EE on the Messages app locks google out of being able to see the content.
I'm sure if this was a false claim all sorts of regulatory authorities would be up in arms.

Don't get me wrong - it is good that Apple is going to help develop and promote an open standard for RCS E2EE - despite the irony in Apple promoting open standards.

SaltyNZ

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#3161635 20-Nov-2023 15:48

farcus:
It does have end to end encryption. Just because it was developed by google doesn't mean it isn't valid.

It matters to the carriers. We (2degrees, One & Spark) have a legal obligation under TICSA to provide plaintext interception for law enforcement and security services. We cannot offer a truly end-to-end encrypted service because if we can't decrypt it, we can't produce the plaintext.

If Google offer true end-to-end encryption - and I don't believe that they do, because their entire business model is to hoover up your private info so they can sell ads - then Google's RCS cannot be officially supported by New Zealand carriers because if it was then it would arguably be "us" providing the service.

You can use proper E2EE services like Signal, or iMessage, because it has not yet occurred to a Minister to designate them as carriers. Signal gets away with it by being too small, and Apple gets away with it because they're very big and also because up till now the really high profile cases where it might have mattered have been cracked by some of those grey-hats-for-hire.

I suspect there would also be some reluctance to officially support the Google RCS on grounds of privacy & security being out of NZ control.

So this is all merely my speculation until further details on what the Apple release will look like but my take is that we will continue not to attempt to stop NZ users from switching on Google RCS, but we won't support it in our carrier bundles. To the extent that any/all of us decide to fully support RCS we will invest in our own RCS systems in each network.

We will interconnect with each other, and probably with the Google RCS as well but I think it unlikely we will wholeheartedly drink the Google RCS Kool-Aid.

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#3161724 20-Nov-2023 18:28

That would be interesting - would a peered RCS server be able to do E2EE or would it be encrypted only upto the Google service?

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#3161816 21-Nov-2023 08:10

I don't know if I'm an outlier here but isin't SMS dead?

I just checked my iphone and I sent or received 2 sms in the last 3 weeks yet in the same period I have hundreds of FB Messenger messages with 38 individuals and 6 groups. I think I have quite a few on Instagram messages as well.

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#3161820 21-Nov-2023 08:29

JPNZ:

I don't know if I'm an outlier here but isin't SMS dead?

I just checked my iphone and I sent or received 2 sms in the last 3 weeks yet in the same period I have hundreds of FB Messenger messages with 38 individuals and 6 groups. I think I have quite a few on Instagram messages as well.

Not being wedded to my phone, those 2 sms's would be about 1/2 my messages.

I also do not (and never will ) have facebook, Google, Amazon, etc on my phones.

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#3161822 21-Nov-2023 08:41

JPNZ:

I don't know if I'm an outlier here but isin't SMS dead?

I just checked my iphone and I sent or received 2 sms in the last 3 weeks yet in the same period I have hundreds of FB Messenger messages with 38 individuals and 6 groups. I think I have quite a few on Instagram messages as well.

No, and I don't think it will be for a long time. It remains the lowest common denominator. The OTT services are all mutually incompatible. iMessage, FB Messenger, Instagram, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, WeChat and dozens of others. You can either have 20 apps on your phone and figure out which one(s) you have in common ... or use SMS, which is guaranteed to work, always. Even if you or the other person are out of data!

Not to mention all the 2FA messages that are sent via SMS.

Until there is some other universal messaging system to replace it, it isn't going away. (In fact, 3GPP are so much betting on it not going away that it has its own 5G SA element purely to cater for 5G SA devices that don't do IMS - primarily these are expected to be IoT type systems).

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On2or3wheels

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#3162153 21-Nov-2023 15:33

I tried Google RCS briefly but I started getting daily nz post scam messages in RCS format. This to me is really dangerous considering they can tell when you leave (delete) the chat so they know you're active, + they could send all sorts of things through RCS. They will also get a read receipt by default if you don't disable that feature.

I would want a much more powerful messages app before I ever turn this on again with features like:
Country code blocking.
Enable RCS for selected contacts only.
Fall back to SMS instantly if data isn't enabled.

mudguard

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#3162163 21-Nov-2023 16:32

SaltyNZ:

or use SMS, which is guaranteed to work, always. Even if you or the other person are out of data!

Do need to have that person's phone number though!

richms

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#3162166 21-Nov-2023 16:35

mudguard:

Do need to have that person's phone number though!

And it has to be the one in the device that they are using. I can assure you that if my sim is out of data and I am not going to be topping it up, it will be out of the phone and my spare will be in there so I have data meaning that having that number is pretty useless.

Richard rich.ms

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