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450 posts

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  #325955 3-May-2010 10:27
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Also amazed at people supporting illegal search and seizure, as well as corporates acting like the police, trying to search residential property. Apple goons turned up to his address asking to search it without authorities, or a warrant..

Nazi Germany would love you guys....

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  #325958 3-May-2010 10:39
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MikeyPI: Also amazed at people supporting illegal search and seizure, as well as corporates acting like the police, trying to search residential property. Apple goons turned up to his address asking to search it without authorities, or a warrant..

Nazi Germany would love you guys....


First, the police had a warrant - not invalidated yet, but some doubt put on it for a variety of reasons (evening search when no time was specified, request was made by a special task force of which Apple is on the board).

However the "Apple goons" showed up and asked if they could search. They were turned down. Anyone can show up at a door step and "ask" if your property can be searched. It's in your right to say NO if there isn't a warrant involved.

As for your "Nazi Germany" comment, you invoked Godwin's Law, which is against the FUG. This is a warning.





 

 

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  #325988 3-May-2010 12:36
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I could be wrong, but how do we know this will be the final design of the next iPhone, and isn't just one of many different prototypes being tested by their staff? How do we know there aren't several form factors being tested but all with the same internal specs?

Nowhere that I've read has suggested this so maybe that means I'm way off base, and I don't know how Apple works in terms of testing devices, as in if they choose the final design and specs and then test it in the wild, or if they do as I suggested above.

As I said, people know more about these things than I do, but it just seems like everyone has thrown their eggs all in the one basket in declaring this is the new model and is exactly what we'll be seeing in a couple months time.

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  #326031 3-May-2010 14:17
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MikeyPI: Story goes, the guy who actually found it, thought it belonged to another member at the bar so gave it to him, so he didnt steal it, and thought he returned it to owner. Guy he gave it to (who didnt steal it or buy it) claims he attempted to locate owner before contacting reporters. Gizmodo claim he recieved a support ticket number when calling, so easy to prove.
But this goes beyond simply civil law, especially when talking about journalism, regardless of its form.


No he didn't.

The wired article states that his friend offered to call Apple Care for him. He did not do this as also indicated by the arcticle.

Besides isn't common sense that if you pick up something at a bar that isn't yours the easiest thing to do would be to hand it into the bartender ?

The guy who lost called that bar repeatedly over many days looking for that phone. If it had been handed into the bar tender the lost phone prototype would of been located much much sooner.

And according to Californian law because he did not take sufficient measures to return the phone , especially given he knew the engineer's name of who lost it he has in fact committed theft. Remember this is not NZ Law but Californian law. 




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  #326051 3-May-2010 14:51
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It begs the question:


As a tech-savvie geek, what would YOU have done?




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  #326155 3-May-2010 19:00
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Last time I was at Rainbow's End I handed in what looked like a very nice camera to the ice cream stand reasoning it was closest to where the camera was left and therefore probably the first place the owner would check.

I have to admit if I had found the phone I'd probably play with it overnight and hand it in to the bar in the morning. I'd want a chance to play with it. :P I might even take photos of it and maybe try to sell those? Maybe. Most likely not. I think taking photos of it would be a greyer area though I am positive Apple would see it as intellectual theft or a copyright issue or something.

I think it's pretty obvious that keeping it and selling it were the wrong things to do and the police or bar owner were the obvious places to take it.

Apple's actions with the police seem over the top but if you look at it as a sort of tech espionage (with the info the tech guy may have kept on his laptop or whatever being their property and unreleased to the public at that) then I can see their point of view but my initial reaction to the raid was outrage.

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  #326162 3-May-2010 19:28
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Really? Outrage? What was your initial reaction to Gizmodo publishing the name, facebook page, and photos of the engineer that lost it? Personally, I feel that they got what was coming to them - I have zero respect for an organisation with so little journalistic integrity.

First things first, it's been established the warrant was valid. 9:45PM is when it was served, and California law allows warrants to be served up until 10:00PM. Second, the law that Gawker tried to invoke protects a journalist from contempt charges for trying to protect the identity of a source - it cannot be invoked if being charged yourself of a felony (such as, I don't know, receiving stolen goods?) There's a reason both Engadget and Wired refused to buy it. Third, Gizmodo hardly made themselves look innocent - why, they only just got hit by Apple last year for publicly posting a bounty on unreleased Apple products. Hard to look innocent when you've done something dumb like that.

On top of that, it's come to light that the person who sold the phone had actually at some point had Apple come up to their door asking for it back (GPS tracking yo) and they claimed that they didn't have it. Don't know about you, but I'd say that it became officially and ethically stolen at that point.

 
 
 
 


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  #326164 3-May-2010 19:36
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corksta: I could be wrong, but how do we know this will be the final design of the next iPhone, and isn't just one of many different prototypes being tested by their staff? How do we know there aren't several form factors being tested but all with the same internal specs?


I was thinking that it could even be a decoy or a publicity stunt on Apple's part. It just seems incredibly clumsy for it to have been accidentally left in a bar considering how vigilant Apple usually are at protecting their future product releases.

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  #326199 3-May-2010 21:40
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alasta:
corksta: I could be wrong, but how do we know this will be the final design of the next iPhone, and isn't just one of many different prototypes being tested by their staff? How do we know there aren't several form factors being tested but all with the same internal specs?


I was thinking that it could even be a decoy or a publicity stunt on Apple's part.


I did consider this as well, but then I thought that pretty much every new device that Apple releases generates enormous hype anyway, and knowing how secretive they are it just doesn't feel like an Apple thing to have done to generate hype. 

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  #326219 3-May-2010 22:49
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corksta:
alasta:
corksta: I could be wrong, but how do we know this will be the final design of the next iPhone, and isn't just one of many different prototypes being tested by their staff? How do we know there aren't several form factors being tested but all with the same internal specs?


I was thinking that it could even be a decoy or a publicity stunt on Apple's part.


I did consider this as well, but then I thought that pretty much every new device that Apple releases generates enormous hype anyway, and knowing how secretive they are it just doesn't feel like an Apple thing to have done to generate hype. 


thats exactly it.

At the end of the day, Apple is just another company protecting their secrets - but it was inevitable that there be a slip up like this. You can't tell me you weren't expecting it, after them doing it so well with their previous products.

Apple is not perfect. It was bound to happen. Just sayin'.





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  #326231 4-May-2010 01:26
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Kyanar:
On top of that, it's come to light that the person who sold the phone had actually at some point had Apple come up to their door asking for it back (GPS tracking yo) and they claimed that they didn't have it. Don't know about you, but I'd say that it became officially and ethically stolen at that point.


Interesting. Source Please :)




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  #326236 4-May-2010 07:06
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honem:
Kyanar:
On top of that, it's come to light that the person who sold the phone had actually at some point had Apple come up to their door asking for it back (GPS tracking yo) and they claimed that they didn't have it. Don't know about you, but I'd say that it became officially and ethically stolen at that point.


Interesting. Source Please :)


Source would be "every article not published by Gizmodo" if it helps any.

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  #326353 4-May-2010 11:26
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freitasm:
MikeyPI: Also amazed at people supporting illegal search and seizure, as well as corporates acting like the police, trying to search residential property. Apple goons turned up to his address asking to search it without authorities, or a warrant..

Nazi Germany would love you guys....


First, the police had a warrant - not invalidated yet, but some doubt put on it for a variety of reasons (evening search when no time was specified, request was made by a special task force of which Apple is on the board).

However the "Apple goons" showed up and asked if they could search. They were turned down. Anyone can show up at a door step and "ask" if your property can be searched. It's in your right to say NO if there isn't a warrant involved.

As for your "Nazi Germany" comment, you invoked Godwin's Law, which is against the FUG. This is a warning.



Apologies, I shouldnt have made that link.. Its more like communist China.. (is that allowed?), and "those guys" instead of "you guys" as it wasnt aimed at anyone one this forum...

Kyanar:

On top of that, it's come to light that the person who sold the phone had actually at some point had Apple come up to their door asking for it back (GPS tracking yo) and they claimed that they didn't have it. Don't know about you, but I'd say that it became officially and ethically stolen at that point.


Not quite, Apple Goons turned up requesting to search the address without a warrant, and the guys room mate turned them away.. So not as cut and dried as that.
Was he still in possession of the phone?

So whose the thief? the guy who found it, and thought he returned it? The guy it was given to, but didnt take it?, Or Giz who bought it, and then contacted Apple?  As for naming the guy who lost it, thats pretty low, but whats was their intent? Some say it was to out him, and put the pressure on Apple to ensure he doenst end up out the high rise window like the last engineer who lost a device, or it could be just name and shame.

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  #326378 4-May-2010 11:58
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And Apple gets what they want - lots of media light and discussions...





 

 

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