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69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 322408 24-Apr-2010 16:46
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thanks for administrator's input, so I just state the fact rather than pointing out the seller in trademe. This post will talk about black berry mobile only. I know it is GPS forum. but it is kind of related to my previous posts. Hopefully administrator will be happy to let me post here. if you do not know what is blackberry, please take a look this article in wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry
 
Before I can expose more here, I have to explain how one blackberry is made i.e. the production process.


Blackberry Canada is just a design company, which means it owns all the patents and design techniques. So when the design team in Canada make phototype of one new model after long test. Blackberry will decide to produce this model massively. however, blackberry does not own any factories. The reasons can be two:1. to maintain of such a large factory chain is a huge cost. Imaging 100k workers in one factory, how many such factories in NZ or Australia.

But it is so normal in China/ South east Asia/ Mexico because the human power cost there is cheap. 2. no need to take any troublesome responsibility to the factory. It is true. If you have enough time to go through many reports on evaluating the working condition of those factories which are producing orders for Disney or iphone. Those factories are called blood and tear factories. So if any bad things are exposed from those factories, blackberry can easily walk away by ending the contract and find another blood and tear factories.

But if those factories are physically and legally belong to blackberry there are only two ways to bankrupt of blackberry: 1 price of all the blackberry will be insane so no one buy it or 2 100k workers file lawsuits together for unfair and illegal treatment. either way will cause bankrupt of blackberry. So is apple company(iphone). Be patient, I know you want to know this post's main subject, but you have to allow me to murmur sth. I believe that no one want to choose to work like a dog. But there is not fairness in our international society. So when a human/a family/an area/one nation/a country is so poor and there is a chance for them to make a living. Good or bad is not so important any more. Please do not tell me sth like this" i am poor too, but I still work hard to make a living".

What I am talking about here is that from birth, if you have to fight for living, you will not spend too much time in thinking of fairness and rightness. So when you ask that why those people in other countries keep doing those things...I probably can answer here though it might not be 100% right: The reason for the existence of these behaviors can be their own problems and problems of developed countries.

People might know too well about their own problems, less education, corrupt government and too many peoples. But you should also see the involving of those international companies, like blackberry and apple. Because those international companies pursue the most profit, which means lower cost and higher price. So all the reasons come together and make the existence of blood and tear factories.
 
So let us come back to main point of this post but do not forget my introduction above because it will help you to understand what happens below. So blackberry needs to find some factories to produce those models. According to blackberry report, there are four manufacture bases in the world which will take the order from blackberry. Four bases are China. Mexico, Canada, Hungary. However most of assembling works are done in China/Mexico because of cheap human power. 

So in those factories of all these bases, there are many abandon mother boards of blackberry during manufacture process. For example, some mother board have some faulty capacities. Usually factories will abandon them rather than repair them because it is cheap and fast to make another new one. So many electronic waste are generated from those factories and they have to be processed properly. Yes blackberry will find a proper company with a valid electronic waste processing license. However no country wants electronic waste because it is a huge cost to process them properly. However, some trading companies in HK will purchase those wastes from recycling companies. But of course, those recycling companies need to process those wastes first before selling to trading companies in HK.

So a hole will be screwed in the mother board. However in most cases, wastes are just sold to trading companies in HK. They are wastes and if someone want to buy them with a good price. It really saves a lot of trouble to both sides. So as you can see in figure 1 and figure 2(http://qimg.yesky.com/uploads/attachments/2009-10/15/6069pd2p.jpg and http://qimg.yesky.com/uploads/attachments/2009-10/15/u13xuowg.jpg), those are the wastes, i.e. mother boards.

So in those small workshops, these workshops will be processed. first good mother boards will be selected out, then they will try to repair those bad mother boards. some might be can be repaired, but others can not. So useful elements, such as resistances, capacities and other electronic components will be taken out of mother boards.
Using those elements in one empty mother, they can assemble another good mother boards. So what happen to those mother boards with hole. as you can see from figure 3 and figure 4(http://www.024sj.com/news/UploadFiles_6975/200908/20090831115754347.jpg and http://www.024sj.com/news/UploadFiles_6975/200908/20090831115754363.jpg), a shortcut will be used to jump from one side to another side. Surprise yes, it works. so you might ask it is only a mother board, how about the shell and other accessories.

Come on, It is so easy to make them or get from other wastes. for example, there are many blackberry phones which can not be repaired. It is easy to make a fake plastic shell of blackberry and low quality of accessories. So you can calculate, the mother board are purchased as wastes, which are really cheap. Other accessories, low quality, are also cheap. So such a "clone" blackberry might only cost 60NZD or 70NZD. But when those phones are sold as new items, 50% off of real brand new items, wow! I do not need to continue to calculate but you should know what is going on here.

So since this can happen to blackberry, it can happen to any mobile phone and any electronic products. I am not saying all the sellers in trademe are selling those products. But keep this in mind, if such a brand new item is sold at 700NZD at dicksmith, and some sellers can sell at 400NZD or less massively as brand new items, should you question before you buy
 
  
 



69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 322411 24-Apr-2010 16:54
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kontonnz: in order for defamation to work in NZ they would need to show you were not 100% accurate in your statements about the trademe trader, and even if you are 100% factual they can still bring a case against you which could be cost prohibitive an example of this would be the BCA versus Simon Singh. So prob best not to highlight specific traders.... :)

in regards to the above posts been really enjoying reading them, and the practices outlined give strength to those who are pro ACTA, as they only need to point out these types of things.  But here is the question I have to wonder are the laws in NZ currently "inadequate" to deal with this.  I.E. they gps units on trademe if they are saying the unit is a tomtom or garmin and you purchase it and its not really a genuine product are the NZ laws inadequate in dealing with this.  If they are not inadequate but its a matter of enforcement then you have to ask why bring in something like ACTA. 

otherwise been really enjoying reading this thread. 


i think most of you go for the wrong direction. It is not the problem of ACTA or free trade. Those products have been shipped before free trade. Stop of free trade can not stop those things. So I do not think that free trade is the fundamental reason.

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  Reply # 322420 24-Apr-2010 18:01
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saikit: i think most of you go for the wrong direction. It is not the problem of ACTA or free trade. Those products have been shipped before free trade. Stop of free trade can not stop those things. So I do not think that free trade is the fundamental reason.


No, it's not a problem with Free Trade. But it's against the law the selling of counterfeit goods.The ACTA (Anti-Counterfeit Trade Agreement) is a reaction to the large volume of fake goods being sold, and it will make it even harder for this to happen. But it will continue to happen...




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  Reply # 322442 24-Apr-2010 19:33
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I have to say I am really enjoying reading this thread. Most interesting thread I have read for quite some time. I didn't realise things were as bad as this. Thanks!




Check out my LPFM Radio Station at www.thecheese.co.nz cool




69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 322981 26-Apr-2010 12:32
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will work in refurbished laptop/notebook if there is further interest.



69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 322986 26-Apr-2010 12:38
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kontonnz: in order for defamation to work in NZ they would need to show you were not 100% accurate in your statements about the trademe trader, and even if you are 100% factual they can still bring a case against you which could be cost prohibitive an example of this would be the BCA versus Simon Singh. So prob best not to highlight specific traders.... :)

in regards to the above posts been really enjoying reading them, and the practices outlined give strength to those who are pro ACTA, as they only need to point out these types of things.  But here is the question I have to wonder are the laws in NZ currently "inadequate" to deal with this.  I.E. they gps units on trademe if they are saying the unit is a tomtom or garmin and you purchase it and its not really a genuine product are the NZ laws inadequate in dealing with this.  If they are not inadequate but its a matter of enforcement then you have to ask why bring in something like ACTA. 

otherwise been really enjoying reading this thread. 


thanks for your advice.

I think the law is inadequate to deal with this. As I know in the state, FBI is putting huge effort in those things. If someone sells those things in ebay or amazon and gets caught, FBI will arrest you directly. Too many refurbished items are sold as brandnew items. Most important is most of refurbished items are use low quality electrical circuits because they are not refurbished by recognized factories but a workshop..

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  Reply # 323249 26-Apr-2010 21:00
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I'm still interested to know why you stopped selling it.  Not why it is wrong (which I agree with), but why did you as a seller making money off it stop selling it?




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69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 323732 27-Apr-2010 16:07
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Niel: I'm still interested to know why you stopped selling it.  Not why it is wrong (which I agree with), but why did you as a seller making money off it stop selling it?


Current job's Salary is good enough for a reasonable life.



69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 323734 27-Apr-2010 16:09
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kobiak: let us know the manufacture cost to build iphone and ipad and then RRP :) is not that the same? :) I'm using *no name* GPS device for almost a year now. it was twice cheaper then garmin or tomtom. it comes with iGo8. I don't care how it got there. I bought it in the good will and believed it was certified accordingly. do I have to pay twice more to receive the same service if i bought garmin or tomtom? no bloody way :)

 

yeah, keep posting :)


to me, choosing which product is really personal thing. I can not say you are wrong or right. but I agree the service of garmin is expensive.



69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 330532 15-May-2010 22:47
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There are TomTom Eclipse in trademe now. Those are electrical waste too. As you can see from those items' photo. Those photos come with chinese character and one chinese mobile number. 

It is the mobile number of supply of all those tomtom go 700/300.....
 






69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 331807 19-May-2010 11:48
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For those who purchase Navman/Mio Knight rider, please be warned: those are fake and electrical waste! I am shocked too....Just get the news

Though Mio has purchased Navman, Knight rider is only released in US and Canada. Because Mio is taiwan company and most of its factories in Kun Shan China, some of local factories get those electrical waste and change the plastic outlook--->change the logo Mio->Navman. Those sellers in trademe claim that those model are only sold in Europe, outside of US.

But a simple phone call to Navman New zealand, you will find out that Navman never release any Mio Knight rider model. Here is the official link of Knigh rider in Mio US:http://us.mio.com/gps-navigation-products-knight-rider-gps-by-mio-overview.htm. Here is the genuine knight rider model:http://www.methodshop.com/gadgets/reviews/kitt-gps/knight_main.jpg.

Those sellers in trademe, their Knight rider only has Navman logo and are sold in Shen Zhen China at 350RMB(70NZD). Those igo amigo software are hacked version, whicn you can download easily.  Those units does not come with any Navman warranty card or support. You can call Navman New Zealand( 0800 466 286) to confirm my statement here. The most important things are that they are electrical waste and have been refurbished.



69 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 336032 29-May-2010 10:39
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c71931f:
saikit: For those who purchase Navman/Mio Knight rider, please be warned: those are fake and electrical waste! I am shocked too....Just get the news

Though Mio has purchased Navman, Knight rider is only released in US and Canada. Because Mio is taiwan company and most of its factories in Kun Shan China, some of local factories get those electrical waste and change the plastic outlook--->change the logo Mio->Navman. Those sellers in trademe claim that those model are only sold in Europe, outside of US.

But a simple phone call to Navman New zealand, you will find out that Navman never release any Mio Knight rider model. Here is the official link of Knigh rider in Mio US:http://us.mio.com/gps-navigation-products-knight-rider-gps-by-mio-overview.htm. Here is the genuine knight rider model:http://www.methodshop.com/gadgets/reviews/kitt-gps/knight_main.jpg.

Those sellers in trademe, their Knight rider only has Navman logo and are sold in Shen Zhen China at 350RMB(70NZD). Those igo amigo software are hacked version, whicn you can download easily.  Those units does not come with any Navman warranty card or support. You can call Navman New Zealand( 0800 466 286) to confirm my statement here. The most important things are that they are electrical waste and have been refurbished.


Hmm.. i saw a Navman/Mio Knight rider one listed recently & in the q&a someone said they couldn't find it on the Navman website & the seller said they were only sold in a certain country,so that's why they wern't on the website..or a answer similar to thatSurprised 

haha,,if I am selling those products, I will answer like that because I know it is fake unit. You can ask Navman by yourself. Only Mio has Knight rider model in US/Canada. You can check Navman UK or Navman Australia.

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 339782 9-Jun-2010 13:24
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Very interesting to read :)

I have a friend who manufacturing the built-in 7" GPS units in Korea, he said once that licensing cost for NZ map is too expensive and always asked to bundgle with Aussie map.

Would it be possible to sell GPS unit with NZ open GPS project preloaded without separate licensing agreement? (Can't find the info from FAQ page)


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