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  Reply # 1080973 4-Jul-2014 13:55
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davidcole:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


They're not - afaik (It's been untested also).

What people are pointing out, that advertising in NZ media is likely to call attention to their service and some incumbent content providers in NZ may get snotty about it as it's cutting revenue they would be traditionally expecting  (read: Sky).

There are other paid services around, but they don't advertise in mainstream media, and operate out of countries like the bahamas (unblock us).



As far as I know there is nothing to test and unless Slingshot are somehow dependant on the NZ content providers (in the way Vodafone appears to be for their content) then there is very little the content providers can do to stop Slingshot.

If I wasn't very happy with my current Big Pipe service I'd seriously think about switching to Slingshot just for this very feature.

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  Reply # 1080974 4-Jul-2014 13:56
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graemeh:
NonprayingMantis:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


It's not illegal.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make to all those who think Sky and others will stop Slingshot from doing this.


it may not be illegal (again it's untested in courts)...but Sky are still the legitimate rights holders for a bunch of this content in NZ.  So I'd imagine they would have a leg to stand on.

And there was some scuttlebutt floating aroudn when fyx shut up shop that it was because sky put pressure on them.




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  Reply # 1080977 4-Jul-2014 14:08
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davidcole:
graemeh:
NonprayingMantis:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


It's not illegal.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make to all those who think Sky and others will stop Slingshot from doing this.


it may not be illegal (again it's untested in courts)...but Sky are still the legitimate rights holders for a bunch of this content in NZ.  So I'd imagine they would have a leg to stand on.

And there was some scuttlebutt floating aroudn when fyx shut up shop that it was because sky put pressure on them.


But Sky would have to go after Netflix, or whoever, not Slingshot, as Slingshot aren't the ones providing the content.
Slingshot aren't broadcasting any of Sky's content.




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  Reply # 1080980 4-Jul-2014 14:14
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CYaBro:
davidcole:
graemeh:
NonprayingMantis:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


It's not illegal.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make to all those who think Sky and others will stop Slingshot from doing this.


it may not be illegal (again it's untested in courts)...but Sky are still the legitimate rights holders for a bunch of this content in NZ.  So I'd imagine they would have a leg to stand on.

And there was some scuttlebutt floating aroudn when fyx shut up shop that it was because sky put pressure on them.


But Sky would have to go after Netflix, or whoever, not Slingshot, as Slingshot aren't the ones providing the content.
Slingshot aren't broadcasting any of Sky's content.


But if you wanted to take this right into conspiracy theory territory..what is easier for sky, talk to netflix where they're nothing (too small to care about), or talk to slingshot where sky may have some clout (we'll deny your uses access to sky go - for example).




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  Reply # 1080999 4-Jul-2014 14:33
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NonprayingMantis:

They will care because their contracts they have with the studios will require they put reasonable measure in place to stop people accessing the content that shouldn't be able to.  A few years ago, IP based blocking was 'reasonable', but now it is clear that it is no longer effective and the studios will demand better measures.

The studios that Netflix buys content from will be saying to them something like:  

"Hey Netflix, you only bought rights for countries A B C, but your methods of stopping people in countries X Y and Z from buying Netflix are not effective. you don't have the right to sell to those people.  Either cough up the dough for the content rights to those countries, put better controls in place to stop kiwis and ozzies from accessing the service, or we will sue the pants off you"




This is exactly the point that many seem to be overlooking - was about to post similar myself, but you saved me the effort.

cool




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  Reply # 1081001 4-Jul-2014 14:38
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graemeh:
NonprayingMantis:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


It's not illegal.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make to all those who think Sky and others will stop Slingshot from doing this.


there are ways they can apply pressure that don't involve slingshot doing stuff illegally e.g. complaining to the studios who will force netflix to enforce the contract they signed to block overseas people from watching.

Or they could lobby to change the law in NZ to make accessing geo-blocked content the equivalent of copyright breach.

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  Reply # 1081004 4-Jul-2014 14:42
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Here we go...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11287718

The comment in the article "The new service shut Hollywood studios out of revenue," is BS.... Netflix pays the studios, we pay Netflix.





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  Reply # 1081013 4-Jul-2014 14:57
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davidcole:
But if you wanted to take this right into conspiracy theory territory..what is easier for sky, talk to netflix where they're nothing (too small to care about), or talk to slingshot where sky may have some clout (we'll deny your uses access to sky go - for example).


I suspect the same technology that Slingshot are using on services like Netflix can also be used to bypass any attempt that Sky makes to block service for Slingshot customers.

Sky would also get a lot of grief from their paying customers if they were ever arrogant enough to try that approach.

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  Reply # 1081015 4-Jul-2014 14:58
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graemeh:
davidcole:
But if you wanted to take this right into conspiracy theory territory..what is easier for sky, talk to netflix where they're nothing (too small to care about), or talk to slingshot where sky may have some clout (we'll deny your uses access to sky go - for example).


I suspect the same technology that Slingshot are using on services like Netflix can also be used to bypass any attempt that Sky makes to block service for Slingshot customers.

Sky would also get a lot of grief from their paying customers if they were ever arrogant enough to try that approach.


ha ha, I'm sorry, I can't resist, but you think sky cares what it's customers think?




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  Reply # 1081027 4-Jul-2014 15:19
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xpd: Here we go...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11287718

The comment in the article "The new service shut Hollywood studios out of revenue," is BS.... Netflix pays the studios, we pay Netflix.



it's not BS.

you pay Netflix, correct. However, Netflix doesn't pay any extra to the studios just because they have NZ customers.  Netflix pays for rights by region - not per customer.

Every NZer signing up to netflix is a NZer who is less likely to buy DVDs, subscribe to sky movies, buy from iTunes etc,  therefore the studios do make less money this way.  Why do you think they require separate regions in the first place?  It's not for fun. They do it because they make more money that way.  Bypassing region restrictions means they make less money.

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  Reply # 1081033 4-Jul-2014 15:26
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davidcole:
I suspect the same technology that Slingshot are using on services like Netflix can also be used to bypass any attempt that Sky makes to block service for Slingshot customers.


Sky? What can Sky do to block the service? Nothing. Slingshot is just doing what every other vpn/tunnel service does. Sky has no control over this, though I suppose they could try legal action against slingshot/callplus.

This service, however, won't last. Not by slingshot or anyone in my opinion. Geoblocking is dead. It's far too easy to work around geo restrictions now and netflix, hulu, bbc, etc etc are going to have to go beyond simple geo restrictions that are woefully ineffective.

These services are going to start requiring proof of residency before providing content. (How the hell does netflix not require a US billing address for credit cards, anyway?) This will very quickly change when the movie studios jump on netflix like a ton of bricks over this issue.

Netflix/hulu/bbc and all the others are going to require proof of residency. Whether that'll be a credit card billing address, US social security number like a lot of US only services require, US cell phone where they text an authorization code etc.

I believe this change is coming very soon now.

And yes, these can be worked around.

But it will mostly require a trip to the US to get a sim, open a bank account, get a credit card there, etc, just so you can what? Watch netflix?

It will effectively stop 99.999% of people.

But geoblocking alone is now well and truly dead.

Back to torrenting for the rest of us.


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  Reply # 1081062 4-Jul-2014 16:22
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NonprayingMantis:
Giggs:
NonprayingMantis:
Giggs:
Beccara: Heh, I hope the NZ company behind GlobalMode in NZ has a damm good legal team!


Putting aside the legalities of someone accessing the likes of Netflix (which I think is legal by the way), if Slingshot can get sued for providing a platform for some to do it then so should Microsoft et al for giving me the technology to rip CDs, car manufacturers for giving me a vehicle I can break the speed limit in and gun makers for giving me a weapon I can kill someone with (actually I like that idea), etc etc 


There is likely a difference between those things based on the intent and promoted uses.

Selling cars designed for legal road driving, which could also be used for driving ilegally,  is different from selling cars and actively promoting them as "perfect for speeding and using for hit and runs"

Likewise, Microsoft never promotes CD ripping software as something you can use to illegally copy music, even though you can use it for that.  

Taking that analogy back to global mode and slingshot.  Originally they promoted global mode as something for your foreign friend to use to access netflix etc when they were staying here.  That is different from saying "hey guys, we added this thing and we encourage you to use it to breach the terms of service of the following other companies: Netflix, BBC iPlayer, iTunes etc"


Fair point although I am not sure Netflix (for example) cares if you breach their terms if they are happy to take your money.  Perhaps the BBC should allow overseas subscriptions.   

I think the only way global mode could be stopped is if content providers could bring pressure to bear on the government.  But it was a National government who allowed parallel importation in the first place in the name of competition when in the late 1990's they changed the Copyright Act so who knows how receptive they would be.


of course they care.  If they didn't care, then they wouldn't even put in geo blocking in the first place.

They will care because their contracts they have with the studios will require they put reasonable measure in place to stop people accessing the content that shouldn't be able to.  A few years ago, IP based blocking was 'reasonable', but now it is clear that it is no longer effective and the studios will demand better measures.

The studios that Netflix buys content from will be saying to them something like:  

"Hey Netflix, you only bought rights for countries A B C, but your methods of stopping people in countries X Y and Z from buying Netflix are not effective. you don't have the right to sell to those people.  Either cough up the dough for the content rights to those countries, put better controls in place to stop kiwis and ozzies from accessing the service, or we will sue the pants off you"

When it is small scale, it's not worth the studios bothering with that line of argument, but as soon as big ISPs start promoting it and making it very easy, you can bet there are going to be some emails flying back and forth between lawyers about it.
Maybe we'll get away with it because NZ is still small, but maybe not.  If Ozzie sees Slingshot getting away with it, then how long before iiNet does the same thing, or ISPs in countries like China, India etc.




Geoblocking is a response to their contractual obligations but actually I bet Netflix could not give a monkeys if you get round it as it is all revenue to them; unless of course (as you point out) the content providers put pressure on them.  The question is will they.  



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  Reply # 1081079 4-Jul-2014 16:51
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Spotted on the FAQ page:

 

 

 

 

For more details on devices and support for Global Mode we encourage you to visit online communities like Geekzone.

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1081086 4-Jul-2014 17:18
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NonprayingMantis:
graemeh:
NonprayingMantis:
graemeh: Can anyone identify a New Zealand law that Slingshot break in offering this service?


It's not illegal.


That is exactly the point I was trying to make to all those who think Sky and others will stop Slingshot from doing this.


there are ways they can apply pressure that don't involve slingshot doing stuff illegally e.g. complaining to the studios who will force netflix to enforce the contract they signed to block overseas people from watching.

Or they could lobby to change the law in NZ to make accessing geo-blocked content the equivalent of copyright breach.


The studios are just like

THOU SHALT NOT PIRATE
THOU SHALT NOT WATCH FROM OUTSIDE OF THE USA

Even if you try to be good and pay for it they dont care, you're just as bad as a pirate in their opinion

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  Reply # 1081087 4-Jul-2014 17:19
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TV networks scramble after Slingshot's Netflix move

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11287718 

Some interesting stuff in that article. I do wonder how long it will last, whether slingshot will change their mind on offering global mode free, or it just completely breaks when netflix and others add extra measures in.

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