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VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #133000 24-May-2008 13:13

freitasm: mushion22 and mikal are correct. The intention of the original post was to show:

1. NZ Communications is alive and closing deals with international partners

2. An Australian visitor that happens to be a Telstra customer will get better rates if roaming on NZ Connections that if using Vodafone New Zealand.

Paul, I don't see why you are comparing the prices of your outbound roaming plans with this.

So back to NZ Communications...


I think you meant to say "An Australian visitor who happens to be a Telstra customer will get a better rate only when phoning home if roaming on NZ Communications than if using Vodafone New Zealand" because as your chart shows, in your very first post, your assertion that Telstra customers roaming into NZ will get better "rates" plural is misleading.

You can see why a new player in a market would try to undercut the existing players in a key area. Vodafone NZ is competing with Telecom for fixed-line broadband by offering free broadband. Clearly, we're not making much on that deal. I would suggest the same is true of NZ Comms in this instance.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


 
 
 

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SightUnseen
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  #134581 31-May-2008 12:36
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Ok, let's simplify this.

I've been back over my bills for the last 2-3 years, and when Vodafone Asia Pacific introduced the streamlined roaming between here and Aus, I could be in Aus and call Aus or call NZ for what would be a local call in NZ.  I can buy wholesale minutes for less than 1c per minute.  I'd say Vodafone's transit costs are similar.  Yes there is network costs involved in building, running, and maintaining a national cellular network.  However, additional minutes for say Get 300 are 20c a minute for out of bundle.  Still looking at less than 25c a minute here.  Yes there are additional costs involved with setting up roaming agreements, and the network management for such.  But 49c (best case) to $5 a minute?  So apparently because I (or actually - it's company money) can afford to travel a lot, someone wants to take a nice dividend off the top.  At least cellphones aren't locked, and local SIMs are easy to come by.  

Texts.  Texts were 20c when sending from Aus to NZ when roaming (or were advertised as such - they were actually taken off included bundles).  I believe it was Xmas before last that the price of texting to NZ from Aus increased in price.  It didn't double.  It didn't treble.  It quadrupled.  This in a time of ever decreasing data transit costs.  The best part was, for me the pricing changes happened between trips, and having younger people in my life I text a lot while overseas.  No notice of the change, but a rather hefty bill upon arrival home.  It was exacerbated by the fact that I had two overseas trips after the billing change in that month, so I got a double whammy.  Not nice when the phone bill is more expensive than the air fare to get there.

sbiddle
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  #134582 31-May-2008 12:43
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International roaming is nothing but a big scam earning big $$ for the major telcos's.

Just look at all of the companies now reselling global SIM's that offer you *free* incoming calls in virtually all western countries and rates that are in most cases far cheaper than traditional mobile providers.

3 are the only mobile carrier with a decent roaming offering, it's a shame that Vodafone could lead the world in roaming with their worldwide precence but choose to ignore what their customers are actually asking for.




My biggest gripe of the day was to look at my latest VF bill and realise that roam forward calls are now rounded up the next minute as well unlike previously were they were per second after the 1st minute. It's bad enough that it only used to cost me 43c per minute to answer a call in Aussie and now costs $1 per minute but the double whammy of now rounding those calls up really does suck.







VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #134583 31-May-2008 12:45

SightUnseen: Ok, let's simplify this.

I've been back over my bills for the last 2-3 years, and when Vodafone Asia Pacific introduced the streamlined roaming between here and Aus, I could be in Aus and call Aus or call NZ for what would be a local call in NZ. I can buy wholesale minutes for less than 1c per minute. I'd say Vodafone's transit costs are similar. Yes there is network costs involved in building, running, and maintaining a national cellular network. However, additional minutes for say Get 300 are 20c a minute for out of bundle. Still looking at less than 25c a minute here. Yes there are additional costs involved with setting up roaming agreements, and the network management for such. But 49c (best case) to $5 a minute? So apparently because I (or actually - it's company money) can afford to travel a lot, someone wants to take a nice dividend off the top. At least cellphones aren't locked, and local SIMs are easy to come by.

Texts. Texts were 20c when sending from Aus to NZ when roaming (or were advertised as such - they were actually taken off included bundles). I believe it was Xmas before last that the price of texting to NZ from Aus increased in price. It didn't double. It didn't treble. It quadrupled. This in a time of ever decreasing data transit costs. The best part was, for me the pricing changes happened between trips, and having younger people in my life I text a lot while overseas. No notice of the change, but a rather hefty bill upon arrival home. It was exacerbated by the fact that I had two overseas trips after the billing change in that month, so I got a double whammy. Not nice when the phone bill is more expensive than the air fare to get there.


OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.

If you send me an email I can set you up with our Traveller bill assessment software which will compare your roaming costs as they would have been BEFORE we launched Traveller and AFTER. Most people find their bills decrease sharply when taken as a whole. I'm happy to put your bill through for you so you can see for yourself (ASSUMING of course that the software is still operational. I haven't seen it for a while).

Either PM me for my email address or have a look on the Vodafone site. I'd post it here but the moderators are quite good at culling it out.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
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http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


sbiddle
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  #134584 31-May-2008 12:49
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PaulBrislen: OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.



TXT messages sent on the VF Australia network cost 20c (with no surcharge) for about 5 years..

SightUnseen
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  #134585 31-May-2008 12:57
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freitasm: mushion22 and mikal are correct. The intention of the original post was to show:

1. NZ Communications is alive and closing deals with international partners

2. An Australian visitor that happens to be a Telstra customer will get better rates if roaming on NZ Connections that if using Vodafone New Zealand.

Paul, I don't see why you are comparing the prices of your outbound roaming plans with this.

So back to NZ Communications...

True.  I added to the thread jack, and shouldn't have.  I'm still a little peeved that many times it costs less to send me (or employees) overseas than it does 1s and 0s back (and forth).

$3.70 per minute for a phone call in the 21st century is diabolical.  So is $1.79, but baby steps....

Paul - thanks for the offer - I already have your email address.  Cheers.

SightUnseen
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  #134587 31-May-2008 13:05
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sbiddle:
PaulBrislen: OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.



TXT messages sent on the VF Australia network cost 20c (with no surcharge) for about 5 years..

Perhaps we were 'undercharged'?  (or should I say mischarged).  I've got bills going back 12 years here (yes - back to the time of BellSouth), and the most annoying thing is - there is no obvious downward trend with roaming prices after 12 years.  There's also a lot of 20c SMS charges whilst roaming in Australia.  

If NZ Communications want to offer something to sweeten the deal to move, and it encourages competition (and not just on price) then that can only be a good thing.  



VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #134590 31-May-2008 13:27

sbiddle:
PaulBrislen: OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.



TXT messages sent on the VF Australia network cost 20c (with no surcharge) for about 5 years..


See also this thread here and the final comment:

The 80c per TXT is something that is steep but I can live with it because it isn't that different to what it was previously. A lot of people forget that previously you paid your normal SMS rate of 17c (since you don't pay GST while roaming) as well as the roaming SMS surcharge. Even a SMS in Australia cost 62c to send (45c surcharge + 17c) and on many other networks the surcharges were in the region of 60c - 90c which means the 80c rate is a good average.

From one sbiddle I believe.

Cheers

Paul





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http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


sbiddle
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  #134591 31-May-2008 13:30
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PaulBrislen:
sbiddle:
PaulBrislen: OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.



TXT messages sent on the VF Australia network cost 20c (with no surcharge) for about 5 years..


See also this thread here and the final comment:

The 80c per TXT is something that is steep but I can live with it because it isn't that different to what it was previously. A lot of people forget that previously you paid your normal SMS rate of 17c (since you don't pay GST while roaming) as well as the roaming SMS surcharge. Even a SMS in Australia cost 62c to send (45c surcharge + 17c) and on many other networks the surcharges were in the region of 60c - 90c which means the 80c rate is a good average.

From one sbiddle I believe.

Cheers

Paul



This was only the case from around mid 2006? onwards when Vodafone claimed they had been losing money charging 20c per SMS while roaming in Australia and introduced a 44c roaming surcharge. From 2001 - 2006 you only paid a maximum of 20c. If you were on Prepay I believe you still only paid 20c per SMS right up until November 2007 when the new roaming charges were announced.

mushion22
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  #134592 31-May-2008 13:34
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PaulBrislen:
sbiddle:
PaulBrislen: OK, myth buster time. TXT messages have never cost 20c a TXT when roaming in Australia. They were 20c a TXT PLUS the cost of whatever the Australian network wanted to add. Typically you'd pay 64c or more per TXT.



TXT messages sent on the VF Australia network cost 20c (with no surcharge) for about 5 years..


See also this thread here and the final comment:

The 80c per TXT is something that is steep but I can live with it because it isn't that different to what it was previously. A lot of people forget that previously you paid your normal SMS rate of 17c (since you don't pay GST while roaming) as well as the roaming SMS surcharge. Even a SMS in Australia cost 62c to send (45c surcharge + 17c) and on many other networks the surcharges were in the region of 60c - 90c which means the 80c rate is a good average.

From one sbiddle I believe.

Cheers

Paul



Reading the post above, and the post linked, I am guessing maybe he meant between 1998 and 2003. He said when he first started roaming in 1998 it was cheaper than it is now. And above he says 'for about 5 years' not 'for the past 5 years.' .
If i remember rightly it was 20c per txt when I roamed in Oz back in 2000 on VF. Perhaps my memory fails me though.

sbiddle
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  #134593 31-May-2008 13:35
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Vodafone indtroduced SMS surcharges in April 2006.



From 24 April 2006, NZ customers roaming on VF Australia will again incur a roaming surcharge when sending
txt messages - a charge VF NZ has absorbed since 2000. Consistent with other roaming destinations, customers roaming
on VF Australia will incur a surcharge. Subject to exchange rates, a fee of 44 cents will be charged in addition to
the flat rate of 20 cents (incl. GST) per txt. Visit www.vodafone.co.nz/roaming or call 222 from your mobile for more info.



VFNZPaulBrislen
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  #134594 31-May-2008 13:40

So are we really arguing about a change in pricing that came about two years or more ago?

I think this thread's wandered off its topic quite a way now. Happy to debate it further but I think we need to start a new thread.

Cheers

Paul




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freitasm

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#134596 31-May-2008 13:41
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I agree. Since the start this was about Telstra customer coming to New Zealand, not about New Zealand customers going overseas.

Locking this now.




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