Bring more business to Orcon and suffer the consequences

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › Bring more business to Orcon and suffer the consequences

1 | 2 | 3

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1937357 11-Jan-2018 20:38

Lias:

It's a pity we can't get the ComCom to outlaw contract terms for phone/internet/power

No contracts. But I assume you still want the first three months free, a free modem, free connection and then pay $50/month for unlimited 200/200 fibre...

Contracts exist because people have an aversion to paying money to ISP's because "they are all ripping us off". There is zero loyalty in the telco space, and those that are genuinely loyal are FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the rest of the market. As soon as there is a new deal that is $2 cheaper, people will jump ship - no worries about the $500 service they just got from their previous ISP.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

OldGeek

875 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#1937381 11-Jan-2018 21:15

chevrolux:

No contracts. But I assume you still want the first three months free, a free modem, free connection and then pay $50/month for unlimited 200/200 fibre...

Contracts exist because people have an aversion to paying money to ISP's because "they are all ripping us off". There is zero loyalty in the telco space, and those that are genuinely loyal are FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the rest of the market. As soon as there is a new deal that is $2 cheaper, people will jump ship - no worries about the $500 service they just got from their previous ISP.

In my case I have a demonstrable history of over 10 years with Orcon so I dont have a history of ship-jumping. A new contract is needed only because of a technicality in upgrading from an old internet connection to a new one in order to get a current service offering. The folks at Orcon told me they were not able to offer an exemption from a 12 month contract on the new plan. So I get treated just the same as a new customer with no previous history with Orcon. Forgive me for thinking that sucks.

cokemaster

Exited
4925 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937403 11-Jan-2018 21:36

Depending on the access type, there will typically be fees incurred by the ISP, in addition to the cost of the modem (+ other inducements - eg. 3 months free on a 12 month contract).
Many ISP's do offer 'open-term' options including some major ISPs - just expect to pay a connection fee and BYO or buy a modem.

However - forcing a customer to recontract just to switch plans (eg. whats happened here)- thats a valid question... I don't think you should be forced to enter into another contract.

Regarding Power companies - I do support minimum terms where they have offered account credits but my view is that the 'break fee' should be the value of the credit only. I would not accept a power company putting a minimum term contract without any credits/goodies.

webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

raytaylor

4006 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1937438 11-Jan-2018 23:28

deadlyllama:

Our neighbour signed up to Orcon and the IP they were allocated is from a Slingshot range.

What's the bet Vocus is moving all their customers onto the same infrastructure and the only difference between Orcon/Slingshot/etc ends up being the logo & price?

One wishes Vodafone could have done as good a job at a merger with telstra clear

Ray Taylor

There is no place like localhost

Spreadsheet for Comparing Electricity Plans Here

Lias

5578 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937544 12-Jan-2018 09:28

chevrolux:

No contracts. But I assume you still want the first three months free, a free modem, free connection and then pay $50/month for unlimited 200/200 fibre...

Contracts exist because people have an aversion to paying money to ISP's because "they are all ripping us off". There is zero loyalty in the telco space, and those that are genuinely loyal are FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the rest of the market. As soon as there is a new deal that is $2 cheaper, people will jump ship - no worries about the $500 service they just got from their previous ISP.

In order, No, No, Yes, I wouldn't complain

People have an aversion to paying money to ISP's when the product and or customer service are garbage. Sure some people will always go for the cheapest option, but most people won't change ISP's willy nilly because it's too much of a pain in the butt. In my experience, most people only seriously look at changing ISP when there are technical issues, or customer service issues. I don't even see why you think loyalty should be a thing in the ISP space? It's like expecting customers to be "loyal" to a particular fast food chain or clothing retailer. Customers will (and should!) chose whatever provider is most appropriate for their needs at the time. Can you imagine if Burger King or McDonald's started requiring you to only purchase fast food from them for a year before you could order?

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

Lias

5578 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937547 12-Jan-2018 09:31

cokemaster:

Regarding Power companies - I do support minimum terms where they have offered account credits but my view is that the 'break fee' should be the value of the credit only. I would not accept a power company putting a minimum term contract without any credits/goodies.

FWIW Powershop gave me $50/month credit for the first three months after switching.. no contract required.

cokemaster

Exited
4925 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937552 12-Jan-2018 09:51

Mercury have done similar inducements in the past too (with similar cool downs), although usually through door to door campaigns.

It’s a bit of a leap of faith... I don’t find it unreasonable for Power companies to put term contracts in if they’re offering ~$200 to join.

webhosting

Loose lips may sink ships - Be smart - Don't post internal/commercially sensitive or confidential information!

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1937554 12-Jan-2018 10:00

Customers will (and should!) chose whatever provider is most appropriate for their needs at the time

With their needs being "how much free cr4p do i get for signing up?" and "who is cheapest". Hence, contracts.

That is exactly the thinking of 95% of the residential market. Even if we said the 99,000 users on geekzone were all choosing their provider based on merit and performance (which going by most of the posts on here even GZ users don't), that's less than 5% of the broadband connections in the country (last thing i read it was just over 2 million).

Drawing parallels to fast food is ridiculous. Pick an actual recurring service.

tdgeek

29631 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937572 12-Jan-2018 10:54

Lias:

stinger:

Lias:

It's a pity we can't get the ComCom to outlaw contract terms for phone/internet/power

There are plenty of no-contract options available. For example, Voyager offer no set up fees, no contract, and an option to bring your own router, rent one for $10/m, or buy one outright.

There's a big difference between a handful of cool but smaller ISP's offering no contracts, and say the 3-4 major players that have 80+% of the market doing it.. Contracts exist only for the benefit of the Telco's not consumers, and thus IMHO they should be stamped out. Consumers should always have the freedom to move ISP's if they don't like something about their current ones, without paying horrendous exit fees.

Fair enough, as long as they are happy to pay a connection fee and modem cost. If they BYO modem, thats fine, here are settings, end of support

tdgeek

29631 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937582 12-Jan-2018 11:01

Lias:

chevrolux:

No contracts. But I assume you still want the first three months free, a free modem, free connection and then pay $50/month for unlimited 200/200 fibre...

Contracts exist because people have an aversion to paying money to ISP's because "they are all ripping us off". There is zero loyalty in the telco space, and those that are genuinely loyal are FAR FAR FAR outweighed by the rest of the market. As soon as there is a new deal that is $2 cheaper, people will jump ship - no worries about the $500 service they just got from their previous ISP.

In order, No, No, Yes, I wouldn't complain

People have an aversion to paying money to ISP's when the product and or customer service are garbage. Sure some people will always go for the cheapest option, but most people won't change ISP's willy nilly because it's too much of a pain in the butt. In my experience, most people only seriously look at changing ISP when there are technical issues, or customer service issues. I don't even see why you think loyalty should be a thing in the ISP space? It's like expecting customers to be "loyal" to a particular fast food chain or clothing retailer. Customers will (and should!) chose whatever provider is most appropriate for their needs at the time. Can you imagine if Burger King or McDonald's started requiring you to only purchase fast food from them for a year before you could order?

If a telco hired as many staff as is needed for 24/7 low wait times, no one would get the service as its too expensive. If some want top notch, instant service and the cheap as chips pricing, it doesnt work that way. There is a lot of competition in the industry, they can pay to add free added value to a connection, they can reduce costs as much as possible, but its tough

Power wise, a mate of mine flips between power companies for the new customer discounts whenever he can. No loyalty. Jump ship is where it is at

Lias

5578 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937614 12-Jan-2018 11:55

tdgeek:

Power wise, a mate of mine flips between power companies for the new customer discounts whenever he can. No loyalty. Jump ship is where it is at

I have a few similar friends, but they are the exception not the rule. Personally I think the fact that Spark still has so much market share should be proof that people just can't be bothered changing :-)

tdgeek

29631 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937621 12-Jan-2018 12:05

Lias:

tdgeek:

Power wise, a mate of mine flips between power companies for the new customer discounts whenever he can. No loyalty. Jump ship is where it is at

I have a few similar friends, but they are the exception not the rule. Personally I think the fact that Spark still has so much market share should be proof that people just can't be bothered changing :-)

Market share, being high or being stable doesnt relate to jumping ship.

Say a company had 100,000 customers. Its competitor similar. After a year its still very similar. In that year MANY have churned and ported to the other

Lias

5578 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1937623 12-Jan-2018 12:07

chevrolux:

With their needs being "how much free cr4p do i get for signing up?" and "who is cheapest". Hence, contracts.

That is exactly the thinking of 95% of the residential market. Even if we said the 99,000 users on geekzone were all choosing their provider based on merit and performance (which going by most of the posts on here even GZ users don't), that's less than 5% of the broadband connections in the country (last thing i read it was just over 2 million).

Drawing parallels to fast food is ridiculous. Pick an actual recurring service.

You show some remarkably cynical thinking, and your conclusions are very much at odds with my experience. I'm happy to concede that some users are like that, but I maintain they are far from the majority. That being said, even if you are correct, that still doesn't allow for ISP's that don't offer any non contract option (e.g. the major ones). Plenty of the smaller ISP's offer a choice of "Free install etc on contract, or pay for the install and no contract". The fact that larger ISP's don't even offer the choice pretty much nullifies your argument, and I don't see any possible justification for ISP's that require a renewal of existing services to lock you in again.

chevrolux

4962 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1937653 12-Jan-2018 12:58

Lias:

chevrolux:

With their needs being "how much free cr4p do i get for signing up?" and "who is cheapest". Hence, contracts.

That is exactly the thinking of 95% of the residential market. Even if we said the 99,000 users on geekzone were all choosing their provider based on merit and performance (which going by most of the posts on here even GZ users don't), that's less than 5% of the broadband connections in the country (last thing i read it was just over 2 million).

Drawing parallels to fast food is ridiculous. Pick an actual recurring service.

You show some remarkably cynical thinking, and your conclusions are very much at odds with my experience. I'm happy to concede that some users are like that, but I maintain they are far from the majority. That being said, even if you are correct, that still doesn't allow for ISP's that don't offer any non contract option (e.g. the major ones). Plenty of the smaller ISP's offer a choice of "Free install etc on contract, or pay for the install and no contract". The fact that larger ISP's don't even offer the choice pretty much nullifies your argument, and I don't see any possible justification for ISP's that require a renewal of existing services to lock you in again.

Cynical thinking bought on with a good amount of experience.

The fact that larger ISP's don't even offer the choice pretty much nullifies your argument, and I don't see any possible justification for ISP's that require a renewal of existing services to lock you in again.

That comment shows lack of experience full stop.

Small players have so much more flexibility than a big boy. Systems are simpler, billing is a lot more manual when it comes to discounts/contracts/etc, and many only run a core network and get the tails else where (like from a big player).

howdystranger

152 posts

Master Geek

#1937655 12-Jan-2018 13:00

I was thinking the other day it would be nice if broadband companies rewarded loyalty - which is perhaps a different model to contracts ... e.g. price starts out on the high side and then comes down the longer you stay with them.

I quite like Stuff Fibre's loyalty discount (sign a 12 month contract and get $10 off) ... nice and transparent.

1 | 2 | 3