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# 105540 6-Jul-2012 09:33
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Hi,

We've just moved onto Orcon Genius, and have a Genius Lite "modem".  Mostly working well, but we're getting frequent intermitted WiFi dropouts.  (The Genius Lite is running as the WiFi source for the house as well).

It's not a single device issue - all WiFi devices drop out at the same time when the issue occurs.

Apparently, I'm running GeniusLite1201 firmware (according to the Status page).  I know from other discussions in the forum that there are later firmwares available.  However, does anyone know if this WiFi issue a "known issue" with the 1201 firmware?  Or is it possible we have "too many" WiFi devices - is there a limit to what the GeniusLite can handle?  (I think the current count is 8 devices, which for a family of 4 is madness in itself!)

Or is it possible I've just been given a dud unit?  Is anyone else here having similar issues?

I will raise a formal support call, but wanted to get an impression from here as well.

Ta!

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xpd

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  # 651720 6-Jul-2012 10:13
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I had Wifi drop outs after upgrading to the latest firmware (1400), I turned off 11N support (dont have any N devices anyway) and the drop outs stopped.

Give that a shot and see if similar for you.......




XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

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  # 651739 6-Jul-2012 10:44
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Thanks; I'll try that tonight when I get home.

(Actually, I think my son's laptop may be an "N" device; but given he's the one that is moaning at me the most about dropouts, he can cope with fallback to "G"!  I doubt it'll make any difference in the long run anyway.)

 
 
 
 


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  # 651783 6-Jul-2012 11:38
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Hi JamesRT,
What are the symptoms,
This may help for the guys diagnosing the issue:
  • Are all WIFI devices affected at the same time
  • Does the OS still show the Router available when the outage occurs or does it disappear
  • If the Router is still available, can you ping the Router IP address
  • Is this issue distance related what does the signal strength show
  • Does the WIFI come back without intervention, or do you need to reboot the router
  • Are there any similarities e.g. everyone on WIFI watching a movie etc., too much data traffic?

FYI - these routers are used in Australia sold as Bob2 used by IINET.









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  # 652534 8-Jul-2012 16:00
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xpd: I turned off 11N support (dont have any N devices anyway) and the drop outs stopped.

Give that a shot and see if similar for you.......


Yes, I've also done this, and don't see any more dropouts either.  Thanks!

If anyone at Orcon is/was reading, and want to collect the data, then...

DeepBlueSky:
  • Are all WIFI devices affected at the same time
  • Does the OS still show the Router available when the outage occurs or does it disappear
  • If the Router is still available, can you ping the Router IP address
  • Is this issue distance related what does the signal strength show
  • Does the WIFI come back without intervention, or do you need to reboot the router
  • Are there any similarities e.g. everyone on WIFI watching a movie etc., too much data traffic?

1. Yes
2. Router still works via ethernet; all WiFi devices disconnect as the SSID vanishes
3. On ethernet, yes; WiFi has disconnected, so no.
4. No observed distance issue - devices <2m from box showed issue
5. WiFi comes back after about 1 minute or so
6. Seemed to occur even if no traffic in WAN link being used

Anyway, switching off ".N" has stopped the symptoms, so we'll stick with that for the moment.

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  # 652741 9-Jul-2012 08:49
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Awesome, thanks for letting us know! Glad to hear it's all sorted.

xpd

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  # 652780 9-Jul-2012 10:23
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Well its not sorted really..... why does the 1400 release cause wifi drop outs with 11N enabled whereas earlier releases ran fine ?




XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

Server : i5-3470s @ 3.50GHz  16GB RAM  Win 10 Pro    Workstation : i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  RX580 4GB Win 10 Pro    Console : Xbox One

 

https://www.xpd.co.nz - Games, emulation, geekery, and my attempts at photography.     Now on BigPipe 100/100 and 2Talk

 

Emulation - The art of getting your $4000 PC to run an 80's system - and still fails.


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  # 652782 9-Jul-2012 10:26
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xpd is right, disabling the wireless N feature is a workaround, not a solution Orcon.




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  # 652787 9-Jul-2012 10:33
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xpd: Well its not sorted really..... why does the 1400 release cause wifi drop outs with 11N enabled whereas earlier releases ran fine ?


It's not just the 1400 release - my Genius is running 1201.

Orcon - the problem isn't "solved"; I've just worked around it - it would be good to get the speed of 11N back for my internal lan-based backups, for example.



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  # 652832 9-Jul-2012 11:30
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Has anyone with this problem tried setting the wireless channel manually rather than using the Auto setting?

I have Genius at home and have never noticed this problem, and I have N enabled... have had a few different firmware versions.



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  # 652834 9-Jul-2012 11:33
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ubergeeknz: Has anyone with this problem tried setting the wireless channel manually rather than using the Auto setting?

I have Genius at home and have never noticed this problem, and I have N enabled... have had a few different firmware versions.


Whilst I was in there turning "N" off, I also set the channel manually at the same time.  I know, two changes at once, never a good thing when trying to fault-find...

I'll try putting "N" back on and keeping the channel on manual and see what that does - thanks for the suggestion.

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  # 652839 9-Jul-2012 11:40
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What channel width do you have, if its auto then maybe manually set it to just 20MHz and leave N on.

Cyril



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  # 652841 9-Jul-2012 11:42
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cyril7: What channel width do you have, if its auto then maybe manually set it to just 20MHz and leave N on.

Cyril


Sorry, without sitting in front of the router GUI I don't know.  I'm not "brave" enough to enable remote-admin interface on my home router, so I can't look until tonight.





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  # 653585 10-Jul-2012 15:30
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jamesrt:
cyril7: What channel width do you have, if its auto then maybe manually set it to just 20MHz and leave N on.

Cyril


Sorry, without sitting in front of the router GUI I don't know.  I'm not "brave" enough to enable remote-admin interface on my home router, so I can't look until tonight.



...and that's what I did last night; seems to be stable still, which is good.

So, it appears that the combination of "auto" channel and .N is broken.  Orcon - over to you!

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  # 653600 10-Jul-2012 15:46
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jamesrt:
jamesrt:
cyril7: What channel width do you have, if its auto then maybe manually set it to just 20MHz and leave N on.

Cyril


Sorry, without sitting in front of the router GUI I don't know.  I'm not "brave" enough to enable remote-admin interface on my home router, so I can't look until tonight.



...and that's what I did last night; seems to be stable still, which is good.

So, it appears that the combination of "auto" channel and .N is broken.  Orcon - over to you!


I would theorise that it's changing the channel due to interference.

This would explain why this affects some people more than others, and the impact of using N.  When using N (especially with 40Mhz BW) there is a greater chance of interference hence the device would have to change frequencies more often given the same levels of interference.

This is a limitation inherent with auto channel selection and not specific to Genius.  It comes about because there is no way to notify devices that an AP is selecting a new channel.  The wifi AP instead must disconnect all devices prior to changing channels, and the devices have to "find" it and renegotiate.  Some are better than others at this.

It'd be interesting for someone affected to use a tool such as InSSIDer To see what channel is in use and confirm if it is changing when this happens...



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  # 653602 10-Jul-2012 15:54
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ubergeeknz: I would theorise that it's changing the channel due to interference.

...

It'd be interesting for someone affected to use a tool such as InSSIDer To see what channel is in use and confirm if it is changing when this happens...


Actually, I did have a look using the WiFi Analysis tool I had installed on my Galaxy S, and as far as I could tell, my Genius was always using the bottom-end of the spectrum (around channel 1 or 2) - there was one other wireless network in range, and that always seemed to be set around channel 9 or so.

Having said that, I am using DECT phones; but I was under the impression that they used a different part of the spectrum.  Can DECT collide with WiFi channels?  I hadn't noticed any correlation of dropout and phone use. 

There didn't seem to be a relationship between dropout and use of microwave over either!  Laughing

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