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680 posts

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  # 652958 9-Jul-2012 14:57
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Sounds a bit rubbish to me.

I can understand there being a technical limitation, but are the above ISP's clearly warning users of this limitation? I don't think hiding that away in the terms and conditions cut's it. Dont forget, terms and conditions are not an instruction manual.

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  # 652965 9-Jul-2012 15:03
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MurrayM:
old3eyes:
MurrayM: I believe that all phone companies do this. I'm on Telecom and I've accidentally added the area code when making a local call and they've charged me. Had this happen several times over the last 20 years or so. So definitely not something new or specific to Orcon!


Telecom doesn't bill you if you put an area code infront of a local number.

Like I said, this hasn't happened to me for at least a couple of years but I have definitely been charged prior to this by Telecom for putting the area code in, and they refused to refund me. ?I would hope that with the advancements made within the last few years that this would no longer happen, so maybe they fixed it a few years ago.


They should have refunded you, because they shouldn't be charging for local calling, even if you put the area code in front, as that doesn't make it a non local call. Although I do recall it was difficult to get Clear to refund it at the time.

 
 
 
 


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  # 652968 9-Jul-2012 15:06
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mattwnz:
MurrayM: I believe that all phone companies do this. I'm on Telecom and I've accidentally added the area code when making a local call and they've charged me. Had this happen several times over the last 20 years or so. So definitely not something new or specific to Orcon!


Are you sure? With caller display it will put the area code in front of the number, so if you do a redial off that caller display number, then you are essentially dialing the number with the area code. However I have never been charged by telecom for doing this. However when I signed up and switched to 'clear' many years ago, they did charg you for putting the area code in front of the number, but got a refund. So maybe it only applies to resellers. Don't know how you can get around dialing the area code if you have caller display.


This can happen inside the same area code - some calls from Wellington to another 04 number (Otaki for example) will be charged as long distance, because even tough it shares the same prefix it's not within the same area.





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  # 652976 9-Jul-2012 15:17
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simonh200: If you use an area code from your land line for a local call Orcon will charge you a toll call- quite possibly a breach of the Fair Trading Act, even though they state this in their terms & conditions.


Note that some numbers even though sharing the same prefix are not in the same local call area. You will have to put this into perspective as well.








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  # 652978 9-Jul-2012 15:21
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A quick Google shows that Actrix also charge for local calls if you put the area code in: http://www.actrix.co.nz/page.php?id=189

Vodafone's site http://help.vodafone.co.nz/app/topics/kw/toll%20call%20local%20area%20code/search/1 says " If you use STD codes for local calls, these will be charged at national call rates"

Quicksilver's site http://www.manawatu.gen.nz/members/help/tolls/index.php says "If you dial the area code when making a local call, you will automatically be charged for a toll call."

TelstraClear's site http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/residential/homeplan/old/phone-line-rental/phoneline-basic/features/caller-identification-user-guide.cfm says "Do NOT dial '0' plus area code when returning calls within your local calling area. If you do, the call may be charged as a toll call."

I could go on but I won't.

Now I don't know if all of these are out of date, maybe they've finally gotten around to fixing it, but it was a pretty well known thing at least a few years ago.


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  # 653000 9-Jul-2012 15:48
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MurrayM: A quick Google shows that Actrix also charge for local calls if you put the area code in: http://www.actrix.co.nz/page.php?id=189

Vodafone's site http://help.vodafone.co.nz/app/topics/kw/toll%20call%20local%20area%20code/search/1 says " If you use STD codes for local calls, these will be charged at national call rates"

Quicksilver's site?http://www.manawatu.gen.nz/members/help/tolls/index.php says "If you dial the area code when making a local call, you will automatically be charged for a toll call."

TelstraClear's site?http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/residential/homeplan/old/phone-line-rental/phoneline-basic/features/caller-identification-user-guide.cfm says "Do NOT dial '0' plus area code when returning calls within your local calling area. If you do, the call may be charged as a toll call."

I could go on but I won't.

Now I don't know if all of these are out of date, maybe they've finally gotten around to fixing it, but it was a pretty well known thing at least a few years ago.



Perhaps they haven't updated their terms, or perhaps that is just to cover themselves. But I would be interested in how people get on with redialing with caller display phones, that do automatically dial the area code. Because when I saw that caller display was adding the area code when dialing back, I was a bit worried, but as I didn't get charged for local calls (I'm with telecom), I thought that that issue now didn't exist.



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  # 653040 9-Jul-2012 16:51
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freitasm:
simonh200: If you use an area code from your land line for a local call Orcon will charge you a toll call- quite possibly a breach of the Fair Trading Act, even though they state this in their terms & conditions.


Note that some numbers even though sharing the same prefix are not in the same local call area. You will have to put this into perspective as well.






Hi Mauricio, yes I am aware that there are different toll call regions within an area code. This is not the case with me- I am only referring to calls made locally, not calls within the 09 Area code that are actually tolls, such as Great Barrier Island etc.

I find it interesting that rather than justify this policy with anything plausible, Cam from Orcon could only say that other ISPs do it as well, as if this makes it any more acceptable. The other ISPs I contacted- Telecom, Vodafone & Telstra Clear don't do it. And whether the line I happen to be on is a resold Telecom line or not is entirely irrelevant- I don't recall Orcon ever telling me that I would be on a resold line, so look out for errant billing irregularities.

Quite simply, when I requested a refund, I should have received one. I shouldn't have to pay for Orcon's flawed billing system.

 
 
 
 


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  # 653050 9-Jul-2012 17:01
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simonh200:
freitasm:
simonh200: If you use an area code from your land line for a local call Orcon will charge you a toll call- quite possibly a breach of the Fair Trading Act, even though they state this in their terms & conditions.


Note that some numbers even though sharing the same prefix are not in the same local call area. You will have to put this into perspective as well.






Hi Mauricio, yes I am aware that there are different toll call regions within an area code. This is not the case with me- I am only referring to calls made locally, not calls within the 09 Area code that are actually tolls, such as Great Barrier Island etc.

I find it interesting that rather than justify this policy with anything plausible, Cam from Orcon could only say that other ISPs do it as well, as if this makes it any more acceptable. The other ISPs I contacted- Telecom, Vodafone & Telstra Clear don't do it. And whether the line I happen to be on is a resold Telecom line or not is entirely irrelevant- I don't recall Orcon ever telling me that I would be on a resold line, so look out for errant billing irregularities.

Quite simply, when I requested a refund, I should have received one. I shouldn't have to pay for Orcon's flawed billing system.


You can go to the TDR if you can't get a resolution. But I think you need a deadlock number. I didn't think this was an issue anymore, but it obviously is.

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  # 653055 9-Jul-2012 17:04
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By dialing an areacode on a telecom wholesaled NEAX obsolete junk like it gets passed off to your toll provider. They have a cost in processing that call and handing it back to telecom so it shouldnt be free as your deal for the free local calls is with your PSTN provider, not your selected toll provider.

Non NEAX junk lines manage to sort this out, but that might be because all the other line providers arent offering a choice of toll providers.




Richard rich.ms



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  # 653061 9-Jul-2012 17:08
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The final point I'd like to make is that any good business relationship is based on trust. So how can we ever trust a business partner (or ISP in this case) who charges us for something we have not used, hides the fact in their terms & conditions and then flat-out refuses to put it right when we find out about it?

They don't itemise calls on the emailed statements to their customers so you only find out about these charges by downloading excel spreadsheets from their website and going through them.

I'd expect better from my ISP, let alone a state owned enterprise.

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  # 653064 9-Jul-2012 17:09
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From what I remember when I used to be with Telecom, even with them directly (before wholesale even existed), dialing 09 before the call resulted in a recorded message stating that you should not dial 09 for local calls, and the call not proceeding. Is this saying that Telecom has actually gone backwards in their handling of these cases now? Bizarre.

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  # 653065 9-Jul-2012 17:16
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Kyanar: From what I remember when I used to be with Telecom, even with them directly (before wholesale even existed), dialing 09 before the call resulted in a recorded message stating that you should not dial 09 for local calls, and the call not proceeding. Is this saying that Telecom has actually gone backwards in their handling of these cases now? Bizarre.


They are with orcon, not telecom, so they are not having a problem with telecom. I'm with telecom, and they connect the call up, and don't charge. Perhaps they have updated their systems to fix this. With technology the way it is, I would expect systems to work this out, and not treat an area code dialed call in a local zone, as a toll call. Perhaps their ISP needs to introduce the phone message?

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  # 653067 9-Jul-2012 17:17
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I recalled slingshot and (then) ihug tolls used to do that as well. 



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  # 653070 9-Jul-2012 17:24
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Mattwnz:You can go to the TDR if you can't get a resolution. But I think you need a deadlock number. I didn't think this was an issue anymore, but it obviously is.


Hi Matt, yes this certainly is still an issue as you'd be aware from our previous correspondence. I'm not prepared to go to the TDRS or the Disputes Tribunal as I don't think I should have to spend money to get money back that is mine.

I find it odd that you work for Orcon but use Telecom as your ISP? Speaks volumes, that.

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  # 653071 9-Jul-2012 17:29
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simonh200:


Mattwnz:You can go to the TDR if you can't get a resolution. But I think you need a deadlock number. I didn't think this was an issue anymore, but it obviously is.


Hi Matt, yes this certainly is still an issue as you'd be aware from our previous correspondence. I'm not prepared to go to the TDRS or the Disputes Tribunal as I don't think I should have to spend money to get money back that is mine.

I find it odd that you work for Orcon but use Telecom as your ISP? Speaks volumes, that.


Sorry, I didn't mean an issue for you. I meant the issue with the phone system charging for local calls when you were in that local calling area and dialed the area code by accident, or via a caller display device. I hadn't heard of these problem for many years, since Clear was setup.

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