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Topic # 123183 27-Jun-2013 14:17
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Am I right in thinking that Orcon is using 2 of the 3 channels by default on 2.4 ghz, and that this goes against 802.11 recommendations to only enable 20 mhz by default.

For some reason it seems to bounce around and overlap my wireless, but there's not really anywhere I can go...  some alien Orcon router using 6+10.





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  Reply # 846156 27-Jun-2013 14:21
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Yes, 40Mhz is used by default.

You can set a channel, if it's busy where you are then reducing to 20Mhz and fixing to a channel (rather than auto) will give you better stability.



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  Reply # 846157 27-Jun-2013 14:23
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ubergeeknz: Yes, 40Mhz is used by default.

You can set a channel, if it's busy where you are then reducing to 20Mhz and fixing to a channel (rather than auto) will give you better stability.


Yeah, but this isn't my AP.. it's someone elses..  and there's someone else on 20 mhz and channel 1.. so uhh the best I can do is channel 11 I think?

From what I understand 40 mhz should never be a default on 2.4 ghz.  And it's rude.  

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  Reply # 846162 27-Jun-2013 14:26
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mercutio:
ubergeeknz: Yes, 40Mhz is used by default.

You can set a channel, if it's busy where you are then reducing to 20Mhz and fixing to a channel (rather than auto) will give you better stability.


Yeah, but this isn't my AP.. it's someone elses..  and there's someone else on 20 mhz and channel 1.. so uhh the best I can do is channel 11 I think?

From what I understand 40 mhz should never be a default on 2.4 ghz.  And it's rude.  


You might have us there, sir.  I'll look into it and see if we might change the default setting, seeing as 2.4 bandwidth is hard to find these days, and in the interests of being a good citizen.

As for your particular situation - go for whichever channel has the lowest signal level.  If 1 and 6 are in use then 11 is an excellent choice.



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  Reply # 846166 27-Jun-2013 14:29
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ubergeeknz:
mercutio:
ubergeeknz: Yes, 40Mhz is used by default.

You can set a channel, if it's busy where you are then reducing to 20Mhz and fixing to a channel (rather than auto) will give you better stability.


Yeah, but this isn't my AP.. it's someone elses..  and there's someone else on 20 mhz and channel 1.. so uhh the best I can do is channel 11 I think?

From what I understand 40 mhz should never be a default on 2.4 ghz.  And it's rude.  


You might have us there, sir.  I'll look into it and see if we might change the default setting, seeing as 2.4 bandwidth is hard to find these days, and in the interests of being a good citizen.

As for your particular situation - go for whichever channel has the lowest signal level.  If 1 and 6 are in use then 11 is an excellent choice.


1, 6, 10 in use.  I'm trying 11 to see if that'll make much difference.  But of course with 20 mhz there's still a 3/4 overlap with 10.

I only use 20 mhz anyway, for phones, tablets etc.

That said i think it was on 6 and something lower last time?

I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out where it is though.  But it's definitely worse otuside, where I first noticed drop in signal.


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  Reply # 846169 27-Jun-2013 14:31
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3 may be a better bet.  But there's no win really in these situations :/  At my place there are about 10 APs with good signal strength.



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  Reply # 846174 27-Jun-2013 14:35
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ubergeeknz: 3 may be a better bet.  But there's no win really in these situations :/  At my place there are about 10 APs with good signal strength.


Yeah, it's getting a bit crazy.  It was working ok before, then I channel hopped because "Orcon Wireless" channel hopped, then I channel hopped again, and again.  It's like it's following me.

That said it's only -60 dbm on my tablet, and when I changed channels it seemed to go down to -80 dbm.  I dunno if it's increasing signal when being used or what.

Inside there only is my router, a Telecom router, an Orcon router.  Outside there are a few more randoms but with -80db'ish signal so I think that shouldn't be too much of an issue.  Maybe they moved their router.

From what I can tell it can't be very close to me, but maybe spreading outside easily or something.


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  Reply # 846179 27-Jun-2013 14:38
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If you fix your channel then it should help.  Auto channels in a congested area doesn't work so well unfortunately... it's not specific to Genius.



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  Reply # 846183 27-Jun-2013 14:42
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ubergeeknz: If you fix your channel then it should help.  Auto channels in a congested area doesn't work so well unfortunately... it's not specific to Genius.


i've always fixed my channel, but the orcon router seems to jump sometimes and I have to switch.

i do wonder if wireless should be using more channels, and work somewhat like dsl modems and use available frequency bands dynamically changing.  i suppose easy to get wrong though.



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  Reply # 847413 30-Jun-2013 15:56
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Where is this 802.11 recommendation? If you want 300mbits you need 40mhz. 802.11n will only (*cough*) run at 150mbit/s with 20mhz bandwidth

i'd be interested to know how the auto-channel function on this router works if it chooses too high a channel - does it then switch to ht-below rather than above?

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  Reply # 847421 30-Jun-2013 16:24
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mercutio: For some reason it seems to bounce around and overlap my wireless, but there's not really anywhere I can go...  some alien Orcon router using 6+10.


Are you sure that it is one router using both those channels? This seems pretty unlikely.

I would have thought it was more likely to be 2 separate people near you with Orcon, both using the default "Orcon Wireless" SSID. They are probably both set to automatically pick a clear (ish) radio channel, and each time they are restarted, they are coming up with a different channel.

Usually a wide 40MHz channel would use (say) channel 6 as the 20MHz channel, then a channel that is 2 above or below for wide (4 or 8).

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  Reply # 847439 30-Jun-2013 17:19
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Some Wireless gear should be shot.. (or at least the people who set them up). The Belkin one.. right in the middle  overlapping all the channels.


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  Reply # 847463 30-Jun-2013 18:02
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You would hate to live near me then. I have 5 APs on the lan here, with my G one specifially not overlapping all the N ones. flatmate has one as well on the same channel my G one is on since I barely use it at all, basically only for the limitless LED base station and some other crappy G only printer.




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 847484 30-Jun-2013 19:52
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RunningMan:
mercutio: For some reason it seems to bounce around and overlap my wireless, but there's not really anywhere I can go...  some alien Orcon router using 6+10.


Are you sure that it is one router using both those channels? This seems pretty unlikely.

I would have thought it was more likely to be 2 separate people near you with Orcon, both using the default "Orcon Wireless" SSID. They are probably both set to automatically pick a clear (ish) radio channel, and each time they are restarted, they are coming up with a different channel.

Usually a wide 40MHz channel would use (say) channel 6 as the 20MHz channel, then a channel that is 2 above or below for wide (4 or 8).


signal strength is the same.  inssider shows channel+channel.




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  Reply # 847485 30-Jun-2013 19:53
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LennonNZ: Some Wireless gear should be shot.. (or at least the people who set them up). The Belkin one.. right in the middle  overlapping all the channels.


that's even worse !



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  Reply # 847486 30-Jun-2013 19:57
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MadEngineer: Where is this 802.11 recommendation? If you want 300mbits you need 40mhz. 802.11n will only (*cough*) run at 150mbit/s with 20mhz bandwidth

i'd be interested to know how the auto-channel function on this router works if it chooses too high a channel - does it then switch to ht-below rather than above?


trying to find a source, i found something else interesting:

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=T4bXd18QlEYC&pg=PA600&lpg=PA600&dq=20+mhz+802.11n+default&source=bl&ots=CbiJ3HrcG8&sig=t1VMWwgKZ1oEHs26nefYKMRyARA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a-TPUejwK4vFkwWpuoEo&ved=0CHoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=20%20mhz%20802.11n%20default&f=false

apaprently there's a 40 mhz intolerant features that some access points are meant to be able to advertise to stop other people using 40 mhz.  never seen that before.



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