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  Reply # 874181 8-Aug-2013 20:24
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So if someone outside our home was using our Internet connection, and we have taken all reasonable steps to have a secure system that a normal person knows how to.eg password protected. Then Whose responsibility is it to pay for the bill? If we have essentially been robbed?

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  Reply # 874186 8-Aug-2013 20:29
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meals: Thanks for your help.

I understand the points you have all made so can see how it might be possible. However, just a few extra points to note. After the first issue with going over 47gb in June, the orcon call centre told me that there were 6 devices connected to our wifi. We only had 3. They suggested I change my password and I did.

You would think after this that orcon would keep a look at our account after suggesting someone else was using our data. And be triggered by the fact that our usage peaked even higher in july to 350gb so that they could notify us or stop our Internet temporarily so that it could be figured out what was wrong.

If we had knowingly been downloading etc it would have been smarter to switch to the unlimited plan before we did that.

The problem is you say it could be something we are doing on one of our devices yet no one can tell us what not even orcon and the thing is we have not changed the way we use the Internet at all. We don't use the icloud and even though I have an iPhone it doesn't even play sound or movies.

I'd like to be able to go through and check all the things you mention but I'm not sure how, as we are not technically savvy. so in terms of putting a case forward to TDR we can only provide what we can orcon certianly has the upper hand in that respect.


Thanks for your help everyone.



To play devil's advocate a bit, you've said you were aware of going over a bit the previous month. Did you monitor your usage following this to see if it was high still? Did you seek technical support regarding your local network? Orcon are not responsible for the devices on your LAN. This is somewhat akin to expecting BP or Mobil to tell you why you're using so much petrol.. they don't know, they just provide it. So Orcon can assist with providing information on the volume of your usage, but not what it was used for. If your car were suddenly using 5 times as much petrol, you'd see a mechanic, not the petrol station.




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  Reply # 874187 8-Aug-2013 20:30
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meals:
I'd like to be able to go through and check all the things you mention but I'm not sure how, as we are not technically savvy. so in terms of putting a case forward to TDR we can only provide what we can orcon certianly has the upper hand in that respect.


It's not really a case of them having the upper hand, as you are possibly confronting them about something outside of their control. Whilst there are certainly occasions where ISP's traffic accounting have made errors, it is more probable that the data has been used on your connection, and doing some basic troubleshooting to check this would be beneficial.

If you could start by telling us what modem/router you use, and what security settings are used by your WiFi, that would be a good starting point.

Also, has FireEngine been able to assist at all?



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 874215 8-Aug-2013 20:51
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Inphinity:
meals: Thanks for your help.

I understand the points you have all made so can see how it might be possible. However, just a few extra points to note. After the first issue with going over 47gb in June, the orcon call centre told me that there were 6 devices connected to our wifi. We only had 3. They suggested I change my password and I did.

You would think after this that orcon would keep a look at our account after suggesting someone else was using our data. And be triggered by the fact that our usage peaked even higher in july to 350gb so that they could notify us or stop our Internet temporarily so that it could be figured out what was wrong.

If we had knowingly been downloading etc it would have been smarter to switch to the unlimited plan before we did that.

The problem is you say it could be something we are doing on one of our devices yet no one can tell us what not even orcon and the thing is we have not changed the way we use the Internet at all. We don't use the icloud and even though I have an iPhone it doesn't even play sound or movies.

I'd like to be able to go through and check all the things you mention but I'm not sure how, as we are not technically savvy. so in terms of putting a case forward to TDR we can only provide what we can orcon certianly has the upper hand in that respect.


Thanks for your help everyone.



To play devil's advocate a bit, you've said you were aware of going over a bit the previous month. Did you monitor your usage following this to see if it was high still? Did you seek technical support regarding your local network? Orcon are not responsible for the devices on your LAN. This is somewhat akin to expecting BP or Mobil to tell you why you're using so much petrol.. they don't know, they just provide it. So Orcon can assist with providing information on the volume of your usage, but not what it was used for. If your car were suddenly using 5 times as much petrol, you'd see a mechanic, not the petrol station.


Good point. The thing was I recieved the first bill on the 24th called them soon after it had to be referred to their technical team who looked into it, took over 2 weeks for them to make contact with me again even with me calling them for an update in between. Them telling me it was legitimate and then the next lot if data being used on 8th July. So there was very little time in-between to get it investigated. And surely changing password in this time would have been enough. ?






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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 874220 8-Aug-2013 20:56
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RunningMan:
meals:
I'd like to be able to go through and check all the things you mention but I'm not sure how, as we are not technically savvy. so in terms of putting a case forward to TDR we can only provide what we can orcon certianly has the upper hand in that respect.


It's not really a case of them having the upper hand, as you are possibly confronting them about something outside of their control. Whilst there are certainly occasions where ISP's traffic accounting have made errors, it is more probable that the data has been used on your connection, and doing some basic troubleshooting to check this would be beneficial.

If you could start by telling us what modem/router you use, and what security settings are used by your WiFi, that would be a good starting point.

Also, has FireEngine been able to assist at all?


Ok, it is orcon genius 4 port DECT wireless VoIP modem. Security setting is WPA/WPA2-PSK

What I'm also worried about is receiving a bill from orcon for this month with another big charge for Internet. I'd hate to have to go through this all again... Whatever the reason for it happening: orcon error, someone using our wifi, or accidentally having something downloading. Tempted to just turn off all Internet access until it is sorted.

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  Reply # 874227 8-Aug-2013 21:05
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meals:
Ok, it is orcon genius 4 port DECT wireless VoIP modem. Security setting is WPA/WPA2-PSK
[snip]
Tempted to just turn off all Internet access until it is sorted.


OK, I'm not sure if there are any particular issues with the genius that cause excess traffic (from memory it was a Netcomm model that was recently susceptible to a similar issue), but WPA2 WiFi security with a good password is considered pretty secure. I expect one of the status pages in your modem would be able to list which WiFi clients are connecting.

Turning off devices can be a good troubleshooting technique. You could try checking your usage each day, and turn off completely half your devices, and see if it makes any difference in data used.



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  Reply # 874240 8-Aug-2013 21:17
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Do you have the firewall enabled on your Genius? If you don't (like the vast % of devices out there) you'll be exposing your DNS and allowing remote lookups which can be used for DNS attacks.

I'm aware of a few people recently who have had this very same issue and used a lot of traffic, one of whom was using a Genius and had disabled the firewall.

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  Reply # 874273 8-Aug-2013 22:05
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Hi All, I've proposed a solution to meals but thought it worth covering some general points that are relevant.

We provide a portal on which any customer can check their usage for the current month at any time.

On the portal you can also setup 2 usage trigger values of your choice, each trigger can be set to send you an alert by SMS or email. As an example customers can set a trigger at 50% of their cap and another at 80%, meaning customers can use them to check they are roughly tracking against their cap for the month and use the higher trigger to avoid incurring overage.

The portal also provides a Usage Predictor, it graphically displays your data for the current month against your cap and shows you the daily average for the remainder of the month to hit your cap without overage.

Genius devices ship with the firewall UP, it has to be positively turned off if required.

I like the petrol station analogy. In a similar vein our Unlimited Plan and data usage alerts is the equivalent of locking your house doors, fitting a burglar alarm AND having insurance :-)




Regards FireEngine


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  Reply # 874274 8-Aug-2013 22:08
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  Reply # 874319 9-Aug-2013 06:18
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meals: Thanks for your help.

I understand the points you have all made so can see how it might be possible. However, just a few extra points to note. After the first issue with going over 47gb in June, the orcon call centre told me that there were 6 devices connected to our wifi. We only had 3. They suggested I change my password and I did.



Changing your password can be pointless if your wifi security is low (e.g. WEP)






Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


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  Reply # 874328 9-Aug-2013 08:01
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It would be good if this Orcon data alarm was setup for all customers on capped plans for 80% and 100%. Isp's these days have most if not all users details. I.e email & cell # for sms. Due to the extra revenue generated from these overages there may be little isp enthusiasm for this. Vodafone do this for mobile data and I think it took the threat of com com regulation due to exorbitant excess fees.

Jeremy

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  Reply # 874352 9-Aug-2013 09:00
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JeremyNzl: It would be good if this Orcon data alarm was setup for all customers on capped plans for 80% and 100%. Isp's these days have most if not all users details. I.e email & cell # for sms. Due to the extra revenue generated from these overages there may be little isp enthusiasm for this. Vodafone do this for mobile data and I think it took the threat of com com regulation due to exorbitant excess fees.

Jeremy


The trouble is that this is still communicating with a customer and there is a general practice that it is best to have customers opt IN to such communications (especially for SMS comms), otherwise it is by definition unsolicited and frowned upon generally.

These things are always a balance and at the moment the consensus is that we should provide a variety of tools that the customer can use if they wish. Of course these tools are of fast decreasing importance to customers on an unlimited plan.




Regards FireEngine


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  Reply # 874500 9-Aug-2013 12:11
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Have you made sure remote management of your router is disabled? changing your wifi password is a waste of time if the culprit knows your router admin credentials.

Orcon is a service provider, it is the users responsibility to secure and monitor usage of a service.  This scenario is no different to getting a large electricity bill because your neighbours are running a "dodgy operation" via a extension cord.

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  Reply # 874590 9-Aug-2013 14:18
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Does 350GB in 4 days sound high to anyone else? It works out to 1 MB/s (I think) which is about all I get though my Genius modem for an NZ connection(sync about 12Mb/s but throughput is lower according to Speedtest). International connections are much slower. Can someone check the maths?

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  Reply # 874596 9-Aug-2013 14:27
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NotReally: Does 350GB in 4 days sound high to anyone else? It works out to 1 MB/s (I think) which is about all I get though my Genius modem for an NZ connection(sync about 12Mb/s but throughput is lower according to Speedtest). International connections are much slower. Can someone check the maths?


It's high for only 4 days, but it's certainly doable. On a ~20Mbps ADSL2 connection it would be less than 2 days of 100% utilisation. Any connection that can sustain over about 8.5Mbps can, in theory, transfer this volume.. so anything better than ADSL1. Also, add in, that I am only looking at this from a downstream perspective. You could also have sustain upstream traffic (if, say, it were torrent traffic), which on a 20/1 ADSL2, could account for this throughput in a bit under 40 hours. Under 6 hours if you're 100% utilising a 100/50 fibre connection ;)




Windows 7 x64 // i5-3570K // 16GB DDR3-1600 // GTX660Ti 2GB // Samsung 830 120GB SSD // OCZ Agility4 120GB SSD // Samsung U28D590D @ 3840x2160 & Asus PB278Q @ 2560x1440
Samsung Galaxy S5 SM-G900I w/Spark

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