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267 posts

Ultimate Geek


# 127482 12-Aug-2013 13:40
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They just installed fibre in my area and I have the new cabinet quite literally at the end of my drive, looking on the website 100/50 and unlimited data is $134p/m.
Now being on broadband unlimited I know my usage is between 150-350GB per month. At the higher end of 350GB per month will I trip the 'fair use' policy?

I don't want to go through all the hassle of a provider change only to find the plan doesn't do what I want or I get kicked off.




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  # 875849 12-Aug-2013 13:58
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We have no fixed "trigger level" - that would be a cap by another name. We have only ever reduced the bandwidth for P2P services at certain times of day to preserve network performance elsewhere. This and our fair usage policy can be found on the Orcon website.




Regards FireEngine


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Full Flavour

  # 875963 12-Aug-2013 16:01
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I know I work for a competitor and I'm not intending this post to stir at all... But what would you do with a customer that flatlined at 100M domestic or at a ridiculous amount internationally on a basis that was 'more often that not'.

i.e. Terabytes of data.

Surely that type of (ab)use wouldn't be sustainable on your network and a fair use policy threshold would kick in at some level?

 
 
 
 


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  # 875969 12-Aug-2013 16:08
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myfullflavour:

Surely that type of (ab)use wouldn't be sustainable on your network and a fair use policy threshold would kick in at some level?


Surely you note that FireEngine said "We have no fixed "trigger level"" - and directed to their fair use policy. Simply, their fair use policy includes Orcon's right to deprioritise your traffic, suspend your account etc. But it presumably is taken on a case-by-case basis - a one-off heavy usage probably is flagged but ignored, but using 5TB a month for 3 or 4 months presumably would trigger a more thorough investigation into circumstances.

That said, I would worry about an ISP whose backhaul could be severly impacted by a single residential customer, even if said customer were sitting at 100% utilisation constantly. Sure, cost-wise, might be a different story, but your network should handle it imo :P

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Vocus
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  # 876074 12-Aug-2013 19:58
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myfullflavour: I know I work for a competitor and I'm not intending this post to stir at all... But what would you do with a customer that flatlined at 100M domestic or at a ridiculous amount internationally on a basis that was 'more often that not'.

i.e. Terabytes of data.

Surely that type of (ab)use wouldn't be sustainable on your network and a fair use policy threshold would kick in at some level?


Drop in the bandwidth ocean in the grand scheme of things. We would notice based on network reports but it wouldn't have an effect on the network in terms of congestion. Not saying anyone should do this!

As FireEngine has outlined, there are terms of fair use which we could enforce if this was to become an issue.





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  # 876075 12-Aug-2013 20:01
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myfullflavour: I know I work for a competitor and I'm not intending this post to stir at all... But what would you do with a customer that flatlined at 100M domestic or at a ridiculous amount internationally on a basis that was 'more often that not'.


If 100mbit/s is a "ridiculous" amount, then I can put you in touch with our wholesale team who can offer some very good pricing on International bandwidth using our Odyssey network. We have some pretty good deals on backhaul and national transit too! I am sure we can come up with a deal which makes 100mbit look trivial :-)





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# 876642 13-Aug-2013 18:10
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FireEngine: We have no fixed "trigger level" - that would be a cap by another name. We have only ever reduced the bandwidth for P2P services at certain times of day to preserve network performance elsewhere. This and our fair usage policy can be found on the Orcon website.


And that really doesn't answer the question does it at what point does Orcon consider someone going over fair use how much "DATA" per month do Orcon consider fair use



when actually you do have a trigger : from the fair use policy page

We have used Orcon customers’ average and estimated usage of our services to develop this Fair Use Policy and we may monitor your account to check that this policy is being followed.


so if the op has an average usage of say 200GB per month and he starts doing 500GB per month according to your fair use policy he'd be deemed abusing his fair usage

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  # 876669 13-Aug-2013 18:39
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Lets go around this again.

We dont have a fixed trigger level.

We currently aren't assessing anyone individually as abusing as per the policy. As and when we do we will reserve the right to make that judgement call at the time we make it.

All as per our policy.

Now please keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle, no further comment will be made on this until, if and when we ever revise our fair usage policy.

;-)




Regards FireEngine


 
 
 
 


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  # 877072 14-Aug-2013 12:16
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Follow your normal usage. If it is deemed too high then I'm sure you will be contacted and told. Then you will know. Simples.

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  # 878722 15-Aug-2013 12:42
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I see allot of ISP's now using Fair Use Policy's and has no set amount before a user breaches the fair use policy.

No individual user should be able to have a large impact on backhaul but 10-20 users could, so fair use is to protect the ISP if there is an impact fair use may be applied and in Orcon's case and most ISP's p2p shaping is the most common way to prevent a group of users from hogging too much bandwidth.

Remember in NZ International Transit (Not Aussie transit as most ISP's have cheaper Transit links to Australia) is expensive (however dropping rapidly) Bandwidth costs the provider $X per mbit I won't give out the exact amount but it ranges between $30 per mbit and $50 per mbit for the smaller ISP's it's often higher as the more BW purchased the cheaper it gets.

Fair use is to protect the ISP and has no set value.




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Vocus

  # 878882 15-Aug-2013 15:07
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Hi all,
Just a few quick points to add.
We have been offering unlimited or almost a year now.
We have kicked exactly 0 people off.
We have contacted exactly 0 customers about their use.
So, I strongly suspect you'll be fine. :)
If you use P2P, you will notice that this slows in the evening - we do this to protect other traffic, but it should rocket along the rest of the time.
Cheers all,




Head of Brand and Communications
Vocus NZ
[Slingshot, Orcon and Flip]


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  # 879019 15-Aug-2013 18:18
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thanks QR and Nebbie for a much better answer than was previously given that clears alot of the murk from the muddy water



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Ultimate Geek


  # 879648 16-Aug-2013 16:41
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quentinreade: Hi all,
Just a few quick points to add.
We have been offering unlimited or almost a year now.
We have kicked exactly 0 people off.
We have contacted exactly 0 customers about their use.
So, I strongly suspect you'll be fine. :)
If you use P2P, you will notice that this slows in the evening - we do this to protect other traffic, but it should rocket along the rest of the time.
Cheers all,


This is an answer I understand and accept.

Thank you, I will be giving Orcon a call to set up my fibre!  :)




"you may not know anything about the issue, but I bet you reckon something"

 

- Mitchell and Webb

 

 

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Master Geek


  # 880941 19-Aug-2013 11:56
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I asked Orcon to explain their Fair Use Policy in detail to me before signing up in April 2013.

They said the same thing - that they have never kicked off anyone and that if they deemed someone breaching the policy they would contact the user and resolve the issue on a case-by-case level, in my case they said they would agree on the user to only download high amounts of data during off-peak hours (midnight-5pm), which is perfectly acceptable.

I have been averaging at about 1TB+ pm since the beginning (with 30Mbps line the maximum possible would be about 8TB pm) and they kept their word so far, no complaints from their end, which is very nice.
What is not praiseworthy though, is the fact that my international traffic has been limited to mere 1.5Mbps per international connection since June. This means streaming HDTV or playing High-res 3D online games that require 10Mbps+ international bandwidth per connection is impossible.

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  # 880944 19-Aug-2013 12:02
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toaster:playing High-res 3D online games that require 10Mbps+ international bandwidth per connection is impossible.


What on earth game requires 10Mbps to play oO

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Master Geek


  # 881066 19-Aug-2013 15:37
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Inphinity:
toaster:playing High-res 3D online games that require 10Mbps+ international bandwidth per connection is impossible.


What on earth game requires 10Mbps to play oO


10Mbps+ was directed more to HD video content, but also for smooth 2.5k online gaming I found 10Mbps to be the minimum, anything under combined with high ping can incur some lag. Perfectionist here. :)

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