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5 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 129223 7-Sep-2013 19:20
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Hi all,

Recently had fibre installed (29th of Aug I think, with a genius modem and VOIP).   Fibre was enabled/switched on at 1715ish and by 1900 the data usage was over 30gb.   During this time I had switched on my laptop, surfed for a bit (maybe 20mins) then switched it off.   I got an alert text an hour later to advise me of my usage.   I then checked my laptop and email.   There were two emails advising me of my data cap being exceeded.   I immediately contacted the help line and was told that the data usage had started at approx. 1400 (three hours before the fibre line was activated).   Since then the usage has been enormous.   At the moment it is well over 400gb and we are heading for 800gb+ by the end of the month.   Starting to panic now, because we cant afford $1600 in extra data usage.  

I have made repeated calls to the help line for advice and assistance and get told I must wait for a technician (still waiting).   And yes we have done the on/off , disconnect/reconnect thing a few times with no result.

My genius modem's passwords etc were all changed to good passwords (upper/lower case and numbers etc).   The wireless is enabled (password protected) and in use by myself and my wife with laptops.   Usage is perhaps 3 hours total a night (facebook youtube etc) and not for data downloads (movies, music, etc).   Everything is switched off when not in use.

I see from last year someone had a similar issue with excessive data usage (Orcon Excessive Data Usage 5 and 6 July ) with their genius modem.   I wondered if they had reached a useful conclusion and if I have a similar issue here.

 As an aside we have also noticed that our speeds haven't changed from when we had ADSL.   Checked with several speed tests and we are about 19-20mbs down and 7-9 mbs up, if that makes a difference (we have a 30mbs capped plan with 30gb of data and VOIP.   We live in Rolleston, Canterbury if that helps too.

If anyone can give us an insight to this it would be appreciated.

Regards,

Heath

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1213 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 891455 7-Sep-2013 20:27
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Hi, pm me your username or account number so I can take a look.




Regards FireEngine


956 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 891458 7-Sep-2013 20:34
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Another case of open DNS resolver on the WAN side, so being used for DNS amplification attacks?

Use something like this to check http://www.kloth.net/services/nslookup.php
Just enter something like:
Domain: www.google.com (or some other internet domain name)
Server: your Orcon IP address e.g. 121.99.x.x or whatever
Query: A record
Should have no response, if there is a response you may need to configure firewall settings on the router.

Check that the firewall is enabled on the "genius" modem OP

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 891471 7-Sep-2013 21:20
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Dont worry about the account details, I managed to find you.

Ill take it up with the provisioning team on Monday and get it sorted.




Regards FireEngine




5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 891583 8-Sep-2013 10:45
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Thanks Guys,

Starting to get a bit panicky about the bill.   Beginning to think unlimited data might be the way to go until this is sorted.

Regards,

HeathD



5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 891743 8-Sep-2013 19:01
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A little more info.

I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.

So something is fishy here for sure.

Current usage will put me up near 880gb over cap (more internet data than I have used I'd guess in the last 10 years).

Regards,

Heath Davis

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  Reply # 891789 8-Sep-2013 22:26
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I'd say don't panic. I am sure FireEngine will get this weird one sorted.

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  Reply # 891791 8-Sep-2013 22:27
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HeathD: I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.


As I said I will have the team look into this Monday but be aware the data usage meter isn't quite instant, the raw data is processed in periods into data that can be displayed on your account so there can easily be 30mins delay so the 18Gb could quite easily have been used up to the time you turned off the router but not displayed on the account until you checked later. Not saying whether it is genuine data or not but the way it accounts and displays is not-quite-real-time.




Regards FireEngine


dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 891868 9-Sep-2013 08:12
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FireEngine:
HeathD: I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.


As I said I will have the team look into this Monday but be aware the data usage meter isn't quite instant, the raw data is processed in periods into data that can be displayed on your account so there can easily be 30mins delay so the 18Gb could quite easily have been used up to the time you turned off the router but not displayed on the account until you checked later. Not saying whether it is genuine data or not but the way it accounts and displays is not-quite-real-time.

I don't want to be pedantic but on a 30 Mbps cap, wouldn't it take 18000/(30/8) = 4800 seconds = 1 hr 20 secs?  Even add in the uplink also flat out still gives an hour.  I think the wording above suggesting 30 mins could consume 18GB "quite easily" is pushing it a lot.  If there are much greater delays for reporting updates then it is more possible but we also have a user who doesn't know about any traffic that might be causing this usage.

I would encourage users to find out how easy it is to get interface counters on the Genius (I don't have one so can't help) so that comparisons can be made with modem stats over periods and compare to the ISP counts.  

1213 posts

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+1 received by user: 231

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  Reply # 891908 9-Sep-2013 09:39
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dwl:
FireEngine:
HeathD: I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.


As I said I will have the team look into this Monday but be aware the data usage meter isn't quite instant, the raw data is processed in periods into data that can be displayed on your account so there can easily be 30mins delay so the 18Gb could quite easily have been used up to the time you turned off the router but not displayed on the account until you checked later. Not saying whether it is genuine data or not but the way it accounts and displays is not-quite-real-time.

I don't want to be pedantic but on a 30 Mbps cap, wouldn't it take 18000/(30/8) = 4800 seconds = 1 hr 20 secs?  Even add in the uplink also flat out still gives an hour.  I think the wording above suggesting 30 mins could consume 18GB "quite easily" is pushing it a lot.  If there are much greater delays for reporting updates then it is more possible but we also have a user who doesn't know about any traffic that might be causing this usage.

I would encourage users to find out how easy it is to get interface counters on the Genius (I don't have one so can't help) so that comparisons can be made with modem stats over periods and compare to the ISP counts.  


That isn't what I said. I said the 18Gb could have been used up to the time the router was turned off and not displayed in realtime. The delay I said could "easily be 30mins". Not to be pedantic but that is not saying 18Gb was used in 30mins. I said there would be a delay and the missing 18Gb could easily have been reported later, easily 30mins later (ie possibly more) - ie it is inexact when taken in those timeframes.

As my maths teacher used to say "adding two decimal points to a guess doesn't make it any more accurate"...can't remember whether that was about my homework :-)






Regards FireEngine


1213 posts

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+1 received by user: 231

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  Reply # 891910 9-Sep-2013 09:47
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HeathD: Thanks Guys,

Starting to get a bit panicky about the bill.   Beginning to think unlimited data might be the way to go until this is sorted.

Regards,

HeathD


I have a senior tech looking at this now.




Regards FireEngine


dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 891912 9-Sep-2013 09:53
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FireEngine:
dwl:
FireEngine:
HeathD: I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.


As I said I will have the team look into this Monday but be aware the data usage meter isn't quite instant, the raw data is processed in periods into data that can be displayed on your account so there can easily be 30mins delay so the 18Gb could quite easily have been used up to the time you turned off the router but not displayed on the account until you checked later. Not saying whether it is genuine data or not but the way it accounts and displays is not-quite-real-time.

I don't want to be pedantic but on a 30 Mbps cap, wouldn't it take 18000/(30/8) = 4800 seconds = 1 hr 20 secs?  Even add in the uplink also flat out still gives an hour.  I think the wording above suggesting 30 mins could consume 18GB "quite easily" is pushing it a lot.  If there are much greater delays for reporting updates then it is more possible but we also have a user who doesn't know about any traffic that might be causing this usage.

I would encourage users to find out how easy it is to get interface counters on the Genius (I don't have one so can't help) so that comparisons can be made with modem stats over periods and compare to the ISP counts.  


That isn't what I said. I said the 18Gb could have been used up to the time the router was turned off and not displayed in realtime. The delay I said could "easily be 30mins". Not to be pedantic but that is not saying 18Gb was used in 30mins. I said there would be a delay and the missing 18Gb could easily have been reported later, easily 30mins later (ie possibly more) - ie it is inexact when taken in those timeframes.

As my maths teacher used to say "adding two decimal points to a guess doesn't make it any more accurate"...can't remember whether that was about my homework :-)

So if a user looks at their usage stats and sees a number and immediately turns off their router, and assuming no accounting errors by the ISP, can the last update in this case be for data that was used for well over an hour or more before?   This still assumes that the line is going full out (otherwise update intervals would be even longer) and the current count of 400 GB over 9 days is more like 2 GB per hour average.

I am wary of ISP counts after Telecom got it wrong for a group of us but I do appreciate Orcon fronting up and sharing info.  The way the counters are not quite real time is an important issue and this one of 18 GB over a short (acknowledged not being precise) interval of time does seem towards the extreme end.

1213 posts

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  Reply # 891918 9-Sep-2013 10:09
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dwl:
FireEngine:
dwl:
FireEngine:
HeathD: I turned the modem off at 3.23 pm today and the data usage was at 450.9gb.   When I switched it back on at 6.50pm the data usage was 468.8gb.


As I said I will have the team look into this Monday but be aware the data usage meter isn't quite instant, the raw data is processed in periods into data that can be displayed on your account so there can easily be 30mins delay so the 18Gb could quite easily have been used up to the time you turned off the router but not displayed on the account until you checked later. Not saying whether it is genuine data or not but the way it accounts and displays is not-quite-real-time.

I don't want to be pedantic but on a 30 Mbps cap, wouldn't it take 18000/(30/8) = 4800 seconds = 1 hr 20 secs?  Even add in the uplink also flat out still gives an hour.  I think the wording above suggesting 30 mins could consume 18GB "quite easily" is pushing it a lot.  If there are much greater delays for reporting updates then it is more possible but we also have a user who doesn't know about any traffic that might be causing this usage.

I would encourage users to find out how easy it is to get interface counters on the Genius (I don't have one so can't help) so that comparisons can be made with modem stats over periods and compare to the ISP counts.  


That isn't what I said. I said the 18Gb could have been used up to the time the router was turned off and not displayed in realtime. The delay I said could "easily be 30mins". Not to be pedantic but that is not saying 18Gb was used in 30mins. I said there would be a delay and the missing 18Gb could easily have been reported later, easily 30mins later (ie possibly more) - ie it is inexact when taken in those timeframes.

As my maths teacher used to say "adding two decimal points to a guess doesn't make it any more accurate"...can't remember whether that was about my homework :-)

So if a user looks at their usage stats and sees a number and immediately turns off their router, and assuming no accounting errors by the ISP, can the last update in this case be for data that was used for well over an hour or more before?   This still assumes that the line is going full out (otherwise update intervals would be even longer) and the current count of 400 GB over 9 days is more like 2 GB per hour average.

I am wary of ISP counts after Telecom got it wrong for a group of us but I do appreciate Orcon fronting up and sharing info.  The way the counters are not quite real time is an important issue and this one of 18 GB over a short (acknowledged not being precise) interval of time does seem towards the extreme end.


Potentially. The system of accounting periods was originally designed to support billing (ie accuracy of "a day" is fine), and in an era of ADSL. The move to real-time expectations and fibre speeds causes greater mismatches with the smaller time periods that are being used here.

I'll raise it with the dev team.




Regards FireEngine


1213 posts

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+1 received by user: 231

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  Reply # 892161 9-Sep-2013 15:23
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HeathD: Thanks Guys,

Starting to get a bit panicky about the bill.   Beginning to think unlimited data might be the way to go until this is sorted.

Regards,

HeathD


OK, you definitely don't need to worry about the bill, this definitely isn't your data.

Looks like the local fibre Co (LFC), have swapped over some config details when you were provisioned meaning other customer(s) data is appearing as yours. It may take me a day or so to fathom out how to get everything straight but suffice to say you have my assurance it is't yours so you won't be paying the Overage Bill From Hell.

Now, scary bit so read carefully: The "overage" may need to hit your account for me to then credit it back so <don't> panic if it happens as our invoices come out automatically. We are still working with the LFC to understand what has happened and how so we can stop it from happening again.

Thanks for your patience




Regards FireEngine


4 posts

Wannabe Geek


Reply # 894153 11-Sep-2013 11:21
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WOW, that is a lot of usage~! would be a huge bill if its charged to your account.
hopefully this has been sorted.

1213 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 894286 11-Sep-2013 14:27
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This is sorted, the LFC have corrected their provisioning and we have restarted the usage billing for this period. Daily usage being reported now back in the normal realm.




Regards FireEngine


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