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# 142982 30-Mar-2014 23:41
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Hey everyone,

Prepare for a lengthy post as this has been happening for some time (4 Months+) and I wanted to have some time to oversee my connection and have some good insight before I came charging off to the forums.

So I am on the Orcon Unlimited $99/mo plan, with a Genius Lite modem.

As of 4+ months ago I was able to sync to the local exchange at 16Mbit, sometimes 17Mbit, though I have seen on rare occasions the odd 19Mbit sync. These rates were actually given to me, being able to download a file from a good server (e.g Microsoft at 1.8MB/s) This was great as previously on other ISPs I had a max of 8Mbit. As time went on I noticed my peak download rate had dropped to a maximum of ~12Mbit, approx ADSL2 Standard max rates. (See figure A)


Figure A: Current Modem stats.




I had not had any physical changes to the house or property, but decided to go ahead and test another RJ11->RJ12 cable. No difference, so I replaced the original back as the one I tested with was 5m longer. For those wondering about the isolation test....I have one jack point in the house, and as the modem handles the phone via VOIP, it is the -only- thing connected. No filters or anything, directly into the jack.

I had always believed I was connected to the Maungatapere exchange, with a cable length of over 6KM but looking at the Chorus map tells a different story. Given my current Noise Margins and Line attenuation I would expect to be in the area circled below in Figure B



Figure B:




(It should be noted there that I am in a VDSL capable area, a friend of mine is currently in battle with Orcon, he lives right next to the Maungatapere exchange, but Orcon says VDSL is not available, every other ISP says yes it is available *shrug* )

Anyways, this brings my expected cable length down from what I thought was over 6KM to a maximum of 2.5KM to my connection point, I am also over exaggerating here.

If I were indeed connected that far away I would expect much higher line attenuation, and a higher noise margin to push the signal that far. In the past on ADSL standard I remember having a line attenuation of over 24db before the upgrade to ADSL2+. Is this something I need to investigate further into, or is it something I need to hand off to Orcon/Chorus? Of course I am not willing to pay $150 for somebody to come out, poke a few wires and tell me its connecting fine.

Any advice or insight is appreciated.

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  # 1015745 30-Mar-2014 23:41
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  # 1015754 30-Mar-2014 23:43
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Do you have master filter installed?





 
 
 
 




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Geek


  # 1015755 30-Mar-2014 23:45
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No I do not, just 1 jack point to the outside line with only the modem connected to it.

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  # 1015811 31-Mar-2014 09:14
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Kapzlock: Hey everyone,

Prepare for a lengthy post as this has been happening for some time (4 Months+) and I wanted to have some time to oversee my connection and have some good insight before I came charging off to the forums.

So I am on the Orcon Unlimited $99/mo plan, with a Genius Lite modem.

As of 4+ months ago I was able to sync to the local exchange at 16Mbit, sometimes 17Mbit, though I have seen on rare occasions the odd 19Mbit sync. These rates were actually given to me, being able to download a file from a good server (e.g Microsoft at 1.8MB/s) This was great as previously on other ISPs I had a max of 8Mbit. As time went on I noticed my peak download rate had dropped to a maximum of ~12Mbit, approx ADSL2 Standard max rates. (See figure A)


Figure A: Current Modem stats.




I had not had any physical changes to the house or property, but decided to go ahead and test another RJ11->RJ12 cable. No difference, so I replaced the original back as the one I tested with was 5m longer. For those wondering about the isolation test....I have one jack point in the house, and as the modem handles the phone via VOIP, it is the -only- thing connected. No filters or anything, directly into the jack.

I had always believed I was connected to the Maungatapere exchange, with a cable length of over 6KM but looking at the Chorus map tells a different story. Given my current Noise Margins and Line attenuation I would expect to be in the area circled below in Figure B



Figure B:




(It should be noted there that I am in a VDSL capable area, a friend of mine is currently in battle with Orcon, he lives right next to the Maungatapere exchange, but Orcon says VDSL is not available, every other ISP says yes it is available *shrug* )

Anyways, this brings my expected cable length down from what I thought was over 6KM to a maximum of 2.5KM to my connection point, I am also over exaggerating here.

If I were indeed connected that far away I would expect much higher line attenuation, and a higher noise margin to push the signal that far. In the past on ADSL standard I remember having a line attenuation of over 24db before the upgrade to ADSL2+. Is this something I need to investigate further into, or is it something I need to hand off to Orcon/Chorus? Of course I am not willing to pay $150 for somebody to come out, poke a few wires and tell me its connecting fine.

Any advice or insight is appreciated.


Have you logged a fault for this? Re your friend, there is no "battle", we work on Chorus' data to know what is available where on their network. We love to get people connected where the service can be provided. There is some difference in different ISP's approach where the Chorus data is not definitive, we tend to say VDSL is only available where Chorus say it is available, where Chorus say "possibly" we ask for a manual pre-qual, which has been done in your friends case so that we can give a definitive answer. Other ISPs tend to say "Yes" then heavily caveat it to cover the cases where Chorus turn their "maybe" into a "no"....

If you have a fault case for the above PM me the ticket reference, if you haven't then I'd suggest you log one and the PM me the number.




Regards FireEngine




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Geek


  # 1015873 31-Mar-2014 10:55
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Okay thank you :) I'll do that tonight when I get home.

By the way reguarding the policy to say no first: That was my own personal opinion too. I think that policy is better than promising what you can't do. The website states I would have to ring and confirm first.

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  # 1015891 31-Mar-2014 11:13
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According to your attenuation rates, you're roughly 1.3km from the exchange. Give or take 100m or so. Backing up what Fire Engine has said, other ISP's tools may say that your friend can have VDSL, when they run into the nitty gritty of actually trying to submit an order assuming its through the Chorus system, if it comes back negative for VDSL for one ISP, it comes back negative for all. In which case they would have to explain that to your friend.

Also as I have said before in other posts, those coverage maps are not the be all and end all for what you can get, they're better used as an indication as to what you might be able to get. A manual prequalification always takes seniority in that pecking order, if that tells you a product is unavailable, you're not going to get it. For example, I myself am in a UFB zone according to the coverage maps, however after submitting a prequal, I am not able to get UFB at this time.




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

No longer work for Orcon

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1016125 31-Mar-2014 17:26
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FlameBeard: According to your attenuation rates, you're roughly 1.3km from the exchange. Give or take 100m or so. Backing up what Fire Engine has said, other ISP's tools may say that your friend can have VDSL, when they run into the nitty gritty of actually trying to submit an order assuming its through the Chorus system, if it comes back negative for VDSL for one ISP, it comes back negative for all. In which case they would have to explain that to your friend.

Also as I have said before in other posts, those coverage maps are not the be all and end all for what you can get, they're better used as an indication as to what you might be able to get. A manual prequalification always takes seniority in that pecking order, if that tells you a product is unavailable, you're not going to get it. For example, I myself am in a UFB zone according to the coverage maps, however after submitting a prequal, I am not able to get UFB at this time.



Hi.
I am said friend who was attempting to get VDSL from you guys but sadly could not. I was told by 2 orcon reps that I could and then 3 reps told me I can not. Despite that my stats are good enough for VDSL. Ask fireengine I think I gave him my line stats although I can DM you them. Like I didn't even get a chorus tech out when I orded VDSL and I felt that there was no effort or trial.

I also have backing evidence that the exchange which is no more then 50 meters away from the house I live in is VDSL2 service.

not to de-rail





You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1016132 31-Mar-2014 17:43
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Are you on VDSL now? If not, happy to squash the confusion once and for all as someone who used to be in prov.. if you want me to run a prequal, send me your full physical address in a PM and I will look into it for you




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

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  # 1016139 31-Mar-2014 17:57
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kiwikiwi:
FlameBeard: According to your attenuation rates, you're roughly 1.3km from the exchange. Give or take 100m or so. Backing up what Fire Engine has said, other ISP's tools may say that your friend can have VDSL, when they run into the nitty gritty of actually trying to submit an order assuming its through the Chorus system, if it comes back negative for VDSL for one ISP, it comes back negative for all. In which case they would have to explain that to your friend.

Also as I have said before in other posts, those coverage maps are not the be all and end all for what you can get, they're better used as an indication as to what you might be able to get. A manual prequalification always takes seniority in that pecking order, if that tells you a product is unavailable, you're not going to get it. For example, I myself am in a UFB zone according to the coverage maps, however after submitting a prequal, I am not able to get UFB at this time.



Hi.
I am said friend who was attempting to get VDSL from you guys but sadly could not. I was told by 2 orcon reps that I could and then 3 reps told me I can not. Despite that my stats are good enough for VDSL. Ask fireengine I think I gave him my line stats although I can DM you them. Like I didn't even get a chorus tech out when I orded VDSL and I felt that there was no effort or trial.

I also have backing evidence that the exchange which is no more then 50 meters away from the house I live in is VDSL2 service.

not to de-rail


OK well 2 manual pre-quals have come back saying VDSL IS available, sales have left you a vm apparently earlier today so best to call them back and get your order in....




Regards FireEngine


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1016140 31-Mar-2014 17:58
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Thats what you get for sharing information....

He beat me to the punch line.

Its confirmed mate, you're definitely suitable




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

No longer work for Orcon

345 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 1016141 31-Mar-2014 18:16
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FireEngine:
kiwikiwi:
FlameBeard: According to your attenuation rates, you're roughly 1.3km from the exchange. Give or take 100m or so. Backing up what Fire Engine has said, other ISP's tools may say that your friend can have VDSL, when they run into the nitty gritty of actually trying to submit an order assuming its through the Chorus system, if it comes back negative for VDSL for one ISP, it comes back negative for all. In which case they would have to explain that to your friend.

Also as I have said before in other posts, those coverage maps are not the be all and end all for what you can get, they're better used as an indication as to what you might be able to get. A manual prequalification always takes seniority in that pecking order, if that tells you a product is unavailable, you're not going to get it. For example, I myself am in a UFB zone according to the coverage maps, however after submitting a prequal, I am not able to get UFB at this time.



Hi.
I am said friend who was attempting to get VDSL from you guys but sadly could not. I was told by 2 orcon reps that I could and then 3 reps told me I can not. Despite that my stats are good enough for VDSL. Ask fireengine I think I gave him my line stats although I can DM you them. Like I didn't even get a chorus tech out when I orded VDSL and I felt that there was no effort or trial.

I also have backing evidence that the exchange which is no more then 50 meters away from the house I live in is VDSL2 service.

not to de-rail


OK well 2 manual pre-quals have come back saying VDSL IS available, sales have left you a vm apparently earlier today so best to call them back and get your order in....


in addition I have also sent them an email asking them to call you in the morning when they get in - hope your contact details are up to date! tongue-out




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

No longer work for Orcon

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1016160 31-Mar-2014 18:55
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All sorted on my end.

 

Cheers!





You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1017793 3-Apr-2014 12:02
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Posting an update.
Yet again denied I will be phoning up the Auckland call centre to ask why.

I will ask though if it says through chorus maps its available and that my line stats are optimal plus with a master filter and a chorus provision in place they can be further improved why is my order still denied?

I have all of the above requirements and yet it seems in my honest opinion that its not even being attempted.

Its not that I require more download its the upload that would matter more to me.





You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 1017833 3-Apr-2014 13:20
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kiwikiwi: Posting an update.
Yet again denied I will be phoning up the Auckland call centre to ask why.

I will ask though if it says through chorus maps its available and that my line stats are optimal plus with a master filter and a chorus provision in place they can be further improved why is my order still denied?

I have all of the above requirements and yet it seems in my honest opinion that its not even being attempted.

Its not that I require more download its the upload that would matter more to me.


False. At this time, it looks like the RFS is for the 8th of this month. There is however some difference with what Chorus seem to think your attenuation is and what a prequal suggests. You say you're roughly 50 meters away from the exchange? I can see from a prequalification that we ran earlier, that you're attenuation indicates you're more like 200 Meters away (keeping in mind that this is measured in cable length, not relevant to your physical location to the exchange.) whereas Chorus are rejecting due to the attenuation indicating you're around 900 meters away, which is perfectly viable for VDSL as that is what my own home connection is attenuating at.
We're in the process of following this up with the sales team, to see what is going on, and if you would like I can arrange for one of those team members to call you to update you about this, but I would like to point out that this is going through, but not from a lack of effort on our provisioning teams part.




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

No longer work for Orcon

455 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1017836 3-Apr-2014 13:25
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A follow up from the team sales and finding out what is actually going on would be really good and much appreciated.

Also I understand a lot more now I do take back about it not being attempted. It just wasn't very clear. Thanks for the follow up Flame and Fire. I am awaiting the call from the auckland call center explaining what's going to happen from now on in. :)





You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

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