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Topic # 143764 26-Apr-2014 12:46
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For the past week, we've been having intermittent high packet loss, so much so that the net becomes unusable (especially video) many times per day. We're on ADSL in Johnsonville (Wellington). I sent a support request to Orcon on Thursday but haven't heard back (Ticket 11747524).

Instead of writing this all out again, here's what I sent them that explains the issue in more detail:

We are getting sporadic, very large amounts of packet loss to everywhere (eg 20% to orcon.net.nz over 10 minutes). Pings using the tool on the Genius web interface also show timeouts when expected (just to rule out WiFi issues for certain). This has been happening since the Wellington issues mentioned on the network status page the other day (though may be coincidental). This occurs seemingly without pattern, at any time of the day or night. It seems to clump together though - there may be a few hours where it's occurring, and then a few where there are no issues.

Needless to say, this means that at times the internet is completely unusable (and at others just slow, and sometimes it works fine).

The packet loss starts from the first visible hop after the Genius (llu.bng1.nct.orcon.net.nz).

We are connected to the Johnsonville exchange (presumably LLU'd).

I have power-cycled the Genius several times, which has had no effect.

If it helps, I have noticed that normally, the ADSL sync speed is around 7600Kbps, but while this issue has been occurring, when the modem has been restarted at various points, it has sync'd at anywhere between 2200 and this value (or has failed to connect altogether). The upstream sync has remained stable at around 750kbps.

I can provide screenshots or data dumps of PingPlotter traces (or manual tracerts) or ping logs.


Here's a PingPlotter screenshot from the other day:




I'm guessing there are three potential causes, in no particular order -
Faulty wiring between (or inside) the house and the exchange (though the lines are underground on this street). There is no correlation with weather, and no one's been messing about with the internal house wiring.
Something wrong in the exchange (note, LLU as above, and not cabinetised)
Something wrong with the Genius

Any thoughts?

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  Reply # 1031524 26-Apr-2014 12:46
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  Reply # 1031544 26-Apr-2014 13:34
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Post the info as requested above - specifically DSL line info. The 7600kb/s connect rate sounds like ADSL (1) so could indicate an issue in an urban area.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1031559 26-Apr-2014 14:21
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Pm me your ticket number and ill take a look later




Regards FireEngine




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  Reply # 1031603 26-Apr-2014 15:20
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RunningMan: Post the info as requested above - specifically DSL line info. The 7600kb/s connect rate sounds like ADSL (1) so could indicate an issue in an urban area.


That's what we've always had here (for at least 18 months or so), so I don't think it's related. I think it's just a lack of master splitter, but that's not really relevant right now. Anyway, the current stats are as below. Like I mentioned in the OP though, it's subject to change every time the modem is restarted (while these problems have been occurring - before then it has always been stable).



It's not playing up right at this moment, so this is pretty much the same as "normal", and I've just restarted the modem to attain that sync (had been around 5k). When it starts clapping out again I'll see what happens to the error counts (hadn't thought to look at that earlier unfortunately).

FireEngine: Pm me your ticket number and ill take a look later 


Thanks, sent - though I did include it in the OP already (I figure it doesn't exactly matter if anyone else knows it).



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  Reply # 1031610 26-Apr-2014 15:33
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Aaaand there we go, that didn't take long. Here's what 2 minutes worth of packet loss does:


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  Reply # 1031662 26-Apr-2014 16:31
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Screeb:
RunningMan: Post the info as requested above - specifically DSL line info. The 7600kb/s connect rate sounds like ADSL (1) so could indicate an issue in an urban area.


That's what we've always had here (for at least 18 months or so), so I don't think it's related. I think it's just a lack of master splitter, but that's not really relevant right now.


All those CRC and HEC errors you refer to in the next post suggest a physical line issue, so the first thing I'd look at would be your internal wiring, and sticking a master splitter in. At the very least do a proper isolation test and see what happens.

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  Reply # 1031677 26-Apr-2014 16:38
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The other issue to consider would be mid span injection - 6dB noise margin indicates you are in ULL gear from Orcon, but the 31dB downstream attenuation indicates a high distance (assuming that figure isn't artificially increased due to poor wiring). Depending on your exact location, you may be better off moving to a Chorus wholesale connection, if your line passes through a cabinet to get to the exchange.



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  Reply # 1031689 26-Apr-2014 17:10
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RunningMan:
Screeb:
RunningMan: Post the info as requested above - specifically DSL line info. The 7600kb/s connect rate sounds like ADSL (1) so could indicate an issue in an urban area.


That's what we've always had here (for at least 18 months or so), so I don't think it's related. I think it's just a lack of master splitter, but that's not really relevant right now.


All those CRC and HEC errors you refer to in the next post suggest a physical line issue, so the first thing I'd look at would be your internal wiring, and sticking a master splitter in. At the very least do a proper isolation test and see what happens.


I'm not sure why a master splitter would suddenly become necessary out of the blue, just to maintain a usable connection, especially when we've been trucking along completely stably for the last 18 months at 7.6k. There's nothing to do isolation tests with, as we have no POTS phones, just the Genius.

The other issue to consider would be mid span injection - 6dB noise margin indicates you are in ULL gear from Orcon, but the 31dB downstream attenuation indicates a high distance (assuming that figure isn't artificially increased due to poor wiring). Depending on your exact location, you may be better off moving to a Chorus wholesale connection, if your line passes through a cabinet to get to the exchange.


As mentioned in the OP, we're not cabinetised - at least not according to the Chorus map (it would have to be very wrong). We're about 700m as the crow flies away from where I assume the exchange is (based on the Chorus map). I don't know what the actual line distance is, but I imagine it's not something absurd.

I'm sure our attenuation rate could be improved markedly by a master splitter, but I see no reason why we should need one all of a sudden.

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  Reply # 1031695 26-Apr-2014 17:33
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Screeb:
I'm sure our attenuation rate could be improved markedly by a master splitter, but I see no reason why we should need one all of a sudden.


Well, something has clearly failed somewhere, or you wouldn't be posting here for help ;-)

Any one of the (possibly many) devices such as phones, Sky TV, alarms or your house wiring could cause the exact problem you are describing if they are faulty or have failed.

A master filter prevents these sorts of issues effecting a xDSL connection.

Unless you do an isolation test though, you won't know.

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  Reply # 1031698 26-Apr-2014 17:42
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absolutely agree with runningman, you have a line fault on your hands by the looks of it, and your connection could defiantly do with a master filter aswell. 




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  Reply # 1031710 26-Apr-2014 18:26
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RunningMan:
Screeb:
I'm sure our attenuation rate could be improved markedly by a master splitter, but I see no reason why we should need one all of a sudden.


Well, something has clearly failed somewhere, or you wouldn't be posting here for help ;-)

Any one of the (possibly many) devices such as phones, Sky TV, alarms or your house wiring could cause the exact problem you are describing if they are faulty or have failed.

A master filter prevents these sorts of issues effecting a xDSL connection.

Unless you do an isolation test though, you won't know.


Yes, clearly something has failed, but it's yet to be established that it's definitely within the premises (who knows, could be a junction between the house and the exchange), so I'm not going to be rushing off to pay for a master splitter to be installed, especially when not only do I not own the house, but I'm not even the leaseholder (who knows how long I will be living here anyway) - don't get me wrong though, it would be nice, but like I said, probably not happening - and obviously I want this resolved ASAP, not have to wait for someone to come around and install something that may not even fix the issue. I would also have to convince my flatmates of the same, and to pay a share.

No phones, no Sky, there is an alarm, but as far as I know, it's disconnected (I will get that confirmed though). None of us have the skills or gear to check if the wiring is faulty (besides isolation testing).

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  Reply # 1031734 26-Apr-2014 18:46
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Screeb: [snip]
Yes, clearly something has failed, but it's yet to be established that it's definitely within the premises (who knows, could be a junction between the house and the exchange),


The first thing to be ruled out in these cases is if it is inside or outside the premises. More often than not it's internal, but of course, not always.

It is however a very good starting point for troubleshooting - do what you can within your skillset to do an isolation test, and report back here with the results.



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  Reply # 1031738 26-Apr-2014 18:50
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Line test has failed on internal wiring or CPE, I have ordered a replacement Genius. If no change then we will need to roll a technician to check/fix your internal wiring.




Regards FireEngine




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  Reply # 1031744 26-Apr-2014 19:00
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FireEngine: Line test has failed on internal wiring or CPE, I have ordered a replacement Genius. If no change then we will need to roll a technician to check/fix your internal wiring.


Thanks!

Just confirmed that not only is the alarm disconnected, but it doesn't exist at all (shh! Trust the stickers!) - so that rules out any isolation testing unless anyone can think of anything other than phone, Sky or alarm? I'm 99% positive that the only thing connected is the Genius.

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  Reply # 1031749 26-Apr-2014 19:06
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Screeb: I'm 99% positive that the only thing connected is the Genius.


You could also try simply power off the modem, then unplug the ADSL cable and replug it both at the jackpot and modem end. if it is a slightly corroded jackpot it may wipe the connectors and clean up the connection, no guarantees but you can't do much else until the modem arrives. 




Regards FireEngine




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