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55 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1033801 30-Apr-2014 10:38
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Jase2985:
User123456: To me it would makes sense that it should as you may not download/upload as much in one 10 period compared to the next.


its got nothing at all to do with how much you upload/download, its to do with the attenuation and signal to noise ratio on your line. this can be inpacted by wiring faults or cross talk which can impact your line and cause the connection speed to drop. Also people having installs with out master filters can put noise back into the lines which degrades service.

Some people on here have gone from about 40Mbps to the mid to high 20's with out changing anything due to what most think is cross talk, but its still faster than ADSL as they have 10Mbps upload speed as well.

Get a prequal done from your isp so that they can give you an estimate on what you may be able to get speed wise. From there if you wish to continue book it in and then the ISP will send a tech round to install the master filter and a dedicated VDSL jackpoint (pretty sure bigpipe is the only one who doesnt do it these days), then your ISP will need to ensure you are put on a VDSL profile, and after that your 10 day training period will start. after a couple of days you should notice the latency decrease, and also the speed will probably decrease a little (2-3Mbps) too, thats a tradeoff for the lower latency. if your line is good enough you should settle on DLM-1.

IMO go for it, if you dont get more than about 15 down and about 5 up then you dont loose much by rolling back
Alright, thank you for the information Jase, I appreciate it. Orcon currently does what you have suggested, so will go ahead with the upgrade and get the prequel done. As im sure you have read, I also have the option to go back to ADSL should the speeds not give a noticeable improvement, so there is a good safety net to fall back on. 

FireEngine:
kawaii: I'm with Telecom but I'm sure this general rule of thumb applies - it comes down to what you're going to use it for and whether you're already maxing out what bandwidth you have and gaining that extra bit will make a huge difference. Also, in the case of VDSL2 there is no guarantee of an improve especially if the wiring in the house is spaghetti junction which necessitates also having a look at how the telephone wiring is setup in ones house.

This would have made sense to me as from a logical point I can see how it would affect the line. To answer your question though, I was mainly going to use it for downloading and uploading from cloud storage services (backups of computers and the information stored on them for example). The upload speed is the main concern at the moment, but it seems like its increases quite nicely after switching to VDSL. And I would obviously take the higher download speed any day.

FireEngine: This is mostly misinformation.

VDSL comes with a mandatory line check, Master splitter, new cabling and jackpot. If that doesn't achieve a good and acceptable speed increase vs ADSL on the line then there IS a guaranteed reversal to ADSL technology and cost (although the splitter etc is typically left in place).

So that IS a guarantee of an improvement, especially with respect to the wiring involved.

As our service provides voip to the modem, the rest of the house wiring can be safely disconnected from the master JP, then either left disconnected or connected to the modem phone port if required to run the house JPs.
Sounds good. So is this the only change to the line, just what is configured in my house? Or does it hop over to fiber connection somewhere else (as I read that VDSL was a combination of copper and fiber) between my house and whatever is beyond it... (Sorry Im not too clued up on all the technicalities or the process in which it works yet)

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  Reply # 1033842 30-Apr-2014 11:30
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User123456:Sounds good. So is this the only change to the line, just what is configured in my house? Or does it hop over to fiber connection somewhere else (as I read that VDSL was a combination of copper and fiber) between my house and whatever is beyond it... (Sorry Im not too clued up on all the technicalities or the process in which it works yet)


VDSL is copper only between your premises and the Chorus cabinet/exchange. From there it is likely to be fibre as with ADSL cabinets these days.




Regards FireEngine




<==== Look no Orcon badge...

 
 
 
 




55 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1033865 30-Apr-2014 11:38
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Ah ok I see, Sorry for leading this slightly off topic, but is there is way to calculate or find out how far away the exchange is?

The reason I ask is that we moved house not so long ago, but we stayed with in the same road (Gills Road). I used to get download speeds of 2.1MB/s on ADSL2+ at our previous place and now it has dropped to more than half, as its only ~1.3MB/s. I reported this to Orcon, which they had me run your speed test analysis as well as reset the modem and line. Long story short, they determined that it was the maximum speed of the line we are currently using and that the only difference can be the distance to the exchange

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1033878 30-Apr-2014 11:53
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you should get the ADSL connection stats from your modem they tell us a lot of info

you have probably moved further away from the cabinet hence the speed decrease, and also the wiring in the house could be different



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1033881 30-Apr-2014 11:58
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You should tell me what stats you would like. I have listed the upstream and downstream speeds as well as the attenuation in a previous post.
 
User123456: My current speeds sit at 1048kbp/s upstream and 14259 kbp/s downstream. My attenuation is at 4db upstream and 12db downstream... going on what you mentioned, I may be in the same boat as you?
 


But yes, thats what Orcon mentioned. I have no idea about the wiring. I also don't know what the age difference is of the respective houses

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  Reply # 1033895 30-Apr-2014 12:05
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get that prequal done then :)

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1033948 30-Apr-2014 12:58
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I was in the same boat as you, and I upgraded mainly because there're too many devices in my household that 1Mbps upload link is getting saturated. So even though my ADSL downloads at around 22Mbps were fine, the saturated uplink meant my download suffers.

VDSL if you can afford it, go for it, for the upload link improvement alone is worth it for me from 1Mbps to 10Mbps.

Initially I did get worse ping time than ADSL, as I had requested for interleaving to be turned off. But DLM(?) took over, and over 2 weeks period my interleaving went from 8ms both ways to 0ms. So nowadays I am pinging Orcon at around 4ms ping time, which is no worse than before. Perhaps a bit better, as I don't remember the actual ping I had. Gaming wise felt no difference.

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  Reply # 1033964 30-Apr-2014 13:13
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User123456: I have one more question, (and both you and Sideface are welcome to answer this) but is there a period of time that you can request the rollback within? ...

I was rolled back after the 10-day "training" period (my VDSL speeds were still less than 15/5Mbps, with only marginal improvement from my previous ADSL speeds).
Orcon did this without argument, and with no financial penalty to me.
Get your prequal smile




Sideface


345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1033965 30-Apr-2014 13:19
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User123456: Ah ok I see, Sorry for leading this slightly off topic, but is there is way to calculate or find out how far away the exchange is?

The reason I ask is that we moved house not so long ago, but we stayed with in the same road (Gills Road). I used to get download speeds of 2.1MB/s on ADSL2+ at our previous place and now it has dropped to more than half, as its only ~1.3MB/s. I reported this to Orcon, which they had me run your speed test analysis as well as reset the modem and line. Long story short, they determined that it was the maximum speed of the line we are currently using and that the only difference can be the distance to the exchange


yes there is, take your downstream attenuation and run that through this. Its what I use for the majority of the GZ users on here that have issues to figure out the cable length to their exchange. In fact that is a good point. That calculator will only tell you the cable length of your connection, not actual physical distance. Good point to keep in mind. 




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

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345 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1033972 30-Apr-2014 13:28
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User123456: You should tell me what stats you would like. I have listed the upstream and downstream speeds as well as the attenuation in a previous post.
 
User123456: My current speeds sit at 1048kbp/s upstream and 14259 kbp/s downstream. My attenuation is at 4db upstream and 12db downstream... going on what you mentioned, I may be in the same boat as you?
 


But yes, thats what Orcon mentioned. I have no idea about the wiring. I also don't know what the age difference is of the respective houses


yes so according to the aforementioned calculator, you're roughly 900m (cable length) from your exchange. I am on the same unlimited VDSL plan at my place which is attenuating at 17db downstream (just checked) and that is getting 19mb down 16mb up. Take from that what you will but you should have a nice amount better download than me, and the same if not better upload, in theory.

FYI - That is in no way shape or form a guarantee of speed, because this is a non-dedicated product. Just to be clear smile




4th gen i7 Haswell 4770k, G.SKILL RipjawsX 16GB (4x4 Gb) DDR3 2400MHz, x1 GTS 460, Intel 180Gb 530 Series SSD, x1 Seagate 1Tb HDD, x1 Seagate 2Tb HDD, Modular 850w PSU, R.O.G. Maximus VII Formula mobo, Cooler Master Storm Trooper Chassis, Cooler Master V8 CPU cooler

"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind." - Terry Pratchett

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1034028 30-Apr-2014 14:51
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FireEngine: 
I can be ultra-clear about this, there are no throttles applied to any traffic on our capped, or uncapped plans - the ONLY feature difference (ignoring any bundle differences as the 200Gb plan is a couple of years or so old), is the included data volume.


Does Orcon have a separate bandwidth pool for uncapped vs capped plans?



55 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1034039 30-Apr-2014 15:09
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alliao: I was in the same boat as you, and I upgraded mainly because there're too many devices in my household that 1Mbps upload link is getting saturated. So even though my ADSL downloads at around 22Mbps were fine, the saturated uplink meant my download suffers.

VDSL if you can afford it, go for it, for the upload link improvement alone is worth it for me from 1Mbps to 10Mbps.

Initially I did get worse ping time than ADSL, as I had requested for interleaving to be turned off. But DLM(?) took over, and over 2 weeks period my interleaving went from 8ms both ways to 0ms. So nowadays I am pinging Orcon at around 4ms ping time, which is no worse than before. Perhaps a bit better, as I don't remember the actual ping I had. Gaming wise felt no difference.
Thank you very much! I appreciate the info from a users perspective and know exactly how you feel. I currently have interleaving turned off on my connection as well, but haven't noticed too much of a change between when it was on. 

Sideface: I was rolled back after the 10-day "training" period (my VDSL speeds were still less than 15/5Mbps, with only marginal improvement from my previous ADSL speeds).
Orcon did this without argument, and with no financial penalty to me.
Get your prequal smile
Perfect. haha I will, thank you. Good to know again that its possible :). Were you able to go back to exactly the same plan you had before? Or did you have to compromise somewhere? I.e. to continue to be locked into a contract?

FlameBeard: yes there is, take your downstream attenuation and run that through this. Its what I use for the majority of the GZ users on here that have issues to figure out the cable length to their exchange. In fact that is a good point. That calculator will only tell you the cable length of your connection, not actual physical distance. Good point to keep in mind. 
Thanks for the link, it worked quite nicely, and as you stated afterwards it does estimate to be 900m... the other interesting thing that I noticed is the adsl+ (LLU) and thats determined to be 24000kbp/s, which as I mentioned earlier was the roughly the same speed I was getting at my previous address. lol.

FlameBeard: yes so according to the aforementioned calculator, you're roughly 900m (cable length) from your exchange. I am on the same unlimited VDSL plan at my place which is attenuating at 17db downstream (just checked) and that is getting 19mb down 16mb up. Take from that what you will but you should have a nice amount better download than me, and the same if not better upload, in theory.

FYI - That is in no way shape or form a guarantee of speed, because this is a non-dedicated product. Just to be clear smile
Wow, 16mb up?? Nice! Alright, thank you, also good to know and some guidelines. but now worries, I shall take it with a grain of salt :).



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1034042 30-Apr-2014 15:11
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sidefx:
FireEngine: 
I can be ultra-clear about this, there are no throttles applied to any traffic on our capped, or uncapped plans - the ONLY feature difference (ignoring any bundle differences as the 200Gb plan is a couple of years or so old), is the included data volume.


Does Orcon have a separate bandwidth pool for uncapped vs capped plans?


I believe it does. According this this any ways: http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/i_have_an_unlimited_data_plan_what_does_this_mean_for_the_speed_of_my_conne 
Have a read from the 3rd paragraph onwards

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  Reply # 1034063 30-Apr-2014 15:36
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User123456: 
I believe it does. According this this any ways: http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/i_have_an_unlimited_data_plan_what_does_this_mean_for_the_speed_of_my_conne 
Have a read from the 3rd paragraph onwards


Ah indeed, that does say there are separate pools.

In which case I would argue that your original post expressing concern that things may be "worse" possibly isn't as ridiculous as the "Answer" seems to imply.

If I as a customer must share a limited bandwidth pool with a bunch of other customers, I would prefer to share said pool with a bunch of other capped customers than a bunch of uncapped customers.  Unless the uncapped pool is much, much, much, much larger than the capped pool (The FAQ suggest it is larger... but how much larger? I remain sceptical of all uncapped plans I'm afraid ;-) - There are better alternatives IMO, though they do depend on your usage)

At the end of the day though, I would highly recommend VDSL and with the option to rollback for free... I'd say go for it. Especially if you're happy with your existing ADSL so a rollback wouldn't be an issue for you.

(Sorry if this has all been covered, I didn't read the thread in its entirety)



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1034068 30-Apr-2014 15:42
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sidefx:Ah indeed, that does say there are separate pools.

In which case I would argue that your original post expressing concern that things may be "worse" possibly isn't as ridiculous as the "Answer" seems to imply.

If I as a customer must share a limited bandwidth pool with a bunch of other customers, I would prefer to share said pool with a bunch of other capped customers than a bunch of uncapped customers.  Unless the uncapped pool is much, much, much, much larger than the capped pool (The FAQ suggest it is larger... but how much larger? I remain sceptical of all uncapped plans I'm afraid ;-) - There are better alternatives IMO, though they do depend on your usage)

At the end of the day though, I would highly recommend VDSL and with the option to rollback for free... I'd say go for it. Especially if you're happy with your existing ADSL so a rollback wouldn't be an issue for you.

(Sorry if this has all been covered, I didn't read the thread in its entirety)
Haha no worries, I appreciate your opinion, Im sure one of the Orcon reps will comment on this and clarify things. So I shall reply to the latter part of your reply. The only thing thats a little bit limiting now is the upload speed. And like alliao mentioned earlier everything struggles afterwards when you using the max bandwidth. So if I did have to go roll back, the speeds of the VDSL would have to really bad... but doesnt look like this will be the case :). Thank you for your input. 

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