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  Reply # 1116237 27-Aug-2014 09:03
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Snackos: So...is netflix worth it?


yes


I don't see a way to see their catalog without signing up first?

correct

Do they have lots of older movies or just recent releases?


almost everything on Netflix is at least a year old.  There is loads and loads of rubbish, but also loads of good stuff that is a bit older if you look for it.



Also, what chances are there that the likes of netflix catch onto this trick and stop it?


I would say given we now have 2 major ISPs doing it in NZ, the chances have just gone up again.

The pressure on the studios from legitimate rights holders in NZ (Sky, TVNZ, Mediaworks, Quickflix and Lightbox probably) will be immense - they pay huge $$ for NZ rights, and the studios aren't holding up their side of the contract by stopping other providers selling the content.
The studios entire business model is based upon global price discrimination.   If the studios don't force Netflix to hold up their side of the contract (Netflix aren't allowed to sell to NZers by the terms of their contract, they don't pay a single dollar for NZ rights) and the volumes of customers acessing Netflix illegitimately grow, the studios entire business model falls apart.

When it was just a few thousand people doing it, it falls under the 'not worth the bother', but when 2 major ISPs do it, this may tip the balance towards stopping it, especially if it encourages Australia and other countries to do the same thing.



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  Reply # 1116245 27-Aug-2014 09:14
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Have been using Global Mode at home on Slingshot.

Fantastic service.  :)


If you need sites added to the list for global mode, just contact them.
Not sure who to contact for those at Orcon to have sites added, but Slingshot's info is here:   https://www.slingshot.co.nz/global-mode/overview




NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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  Reply # 1116248 27-Aug-2014 09:16
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Snackos: So...is netflix worth it? I don't see a way to see their catalog without signing up first? Do they have lots of older movies or just recent releases?

Also, what chances are there that the likes of netflix catch onto this trick and stop it?

 

 

 

Netflix is great, they have some recent movies, but mostly a year or two back. It depends on the region.. for example, using unblock-us, you can switch between regions, and each offers up different films and series. 
I find Netflix Argentina to be very good. 

You can have a look here for a brief rundown of what is new to Netflix 
http://whats-on-netflix.com/


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  Reply # 1116261 27-Aug-2014 09:22
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NZCrusader: Have been using Global Mode at home on Slingshot.

Fantastic service.  :)


If you need sites added to the list for global mode, just contact them.
Not sure who to contact for those at Orcon to have sites added, but Slingshot's info is here:   https://www.slingshot.co.nz/global-mode/overview

 

 

 

 

I recently sent SS a list of about 45 sites, so that should help everyone 

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  Reply # 1116267 27-Aug-2014 09:29
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 The pressure on the studios from legitimate rights holders in NZ (Sky, TVNZ, Mediaworks, Quickflix and Lightbox probably) will be immense - they pay huge $$ for NZ rights, and the studios aren't holding up their side of the contract by stopping other providers selling the content.
The studios entire business model is based upon global price discrimination.   If the studios don't force Netflix to hold up their side of the contract (Netflix aren't allowed to sell to NZers by the terms of their contract, they don't pay a single dollar for NZ rights) and the volumes of customers acessing Netflix illegitimately grow, the studios entire business model falls apart.

When it was just a few thousand people doing it, it falls under the 'not worth the bother', but when 2 major ISPs do it, this may tip the balance towards stopping it, especially if it encourages Australia and other countries to do the same thing.


I have no inside knowledge but bear in mind that the studios are still getting content revenue via (say) Netflix. Logic then says that devalues the NZ rights that (say) Sky pay for - which is reality seeing as the access method has changed.

Not sure there is any pressure on the studios to do anything, there will just be a readjustment of revenue by channel - which is what changing access technology tends to do.

I would expect the NZ rights would be based on the NZ population size so while the pressure on the NZ rights holders may well be immense, I suspect that doesn't translate into anything like immense pressure on the studio rights owners, the relative volumes don't lead to that.

All IMHO




Regards FireEngine


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  Reply # 1116273 27-Aug-2014 09:41
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BBC Iplayer working fine foe me on PC including downloading into the player for viewing later.  Have tried to download app to Asus Android tablet but says app not available in NZ ...




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  Reply # 1116275 27-Aug-2014 09:43
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FireEngine:
 The pressure on the studios from legitimate rights holders in NZ (Sky, TVNZ, Mediaworks, Quickflix and Lightbox probably) will be immense - they pay huge $$ for NZ rights, and the studios aren't holding up their side of the contract by stopping other providers selling the content.
The studios entire business model is based upon global price discrimination.   If the studios don't force Netflix to hold up their side of the contract (Netflix aren't allowed to sell to NZers by the terms of their contract, they don't pay a single dollar for NZ rights) and the volumes of customers acessing Netflix illegitimately grow, the studios entire business model falls apart.

When it was just a few thousand people doing it, it falls under the 'not worth the bother', but when 2 major ISPs do it, this may tip the balance towards stopping it, especially if it encourages Australia and other countries to do the same thing.


I have no inside knowledge but bear in mind that the studios are still getting content revenue via (say) Netflix. Logic then says that devalues the NZ rights that (say) Sky pay for - which is reality seeing as the access method has changed.

Not sure there is any pressure on the studios to do anything, there will just be a readjustment of revenue by channel - which is what changing access technology tends to do.

I would expect the NZ rights would be based on the NZ population size so while the pressure on the NZ rights holders may well be immense, I suspect that doesn't translate into anything like immense pressure on the studio rights owners, the relative volumes don't lead to that.

All IMHO


AFAIK Netflix buys it's rights by region on a flat rate basis e.g. $1m per episode of X, not on a per customer basis.  So it won't be paying anything for all the extra customers that have signed up from NZ, Australia etc.  That's just money straight into their pockets and the studios get nothing extra for it.

Not only that, but even if the studios did get money from these extra subscribers,  we are talking very small amounts given Netflix's price is only $9USD/month, compared to what Sky etc are paying them.  
Whilst globally the pressure won't be immense,  the pressure on the local arms of the studios will be, and will only grow as more people access content they aren't supposed to.
If it really takes off, Netflix will start using arbitrage to only buy content in the cheapest region, or maybe split it's content buying accross different regions to save money, then encourage customers in all other regions to just use unblocking services to access that version of it.

No way will the studios allow that to happen - they make too much money to just let it slip by.



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  Reply # 1116289 27-Aug-2014 09:57
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NonprayingMantis: AFAIK Netflix buys it's rights by region on a flat rate basis e.g. $1m per episode of X, not on a per customer basis.  So it won't be paying anything for all the extra customers that have signed up from NZ, Australia etc.  That's just money straight into their pockets and the studios get nothing extra for it.

Not only that, but even if the studios did get money from these extra subscribers,  we are talking very small amounts given Netflix's price is only $9USD/month, compared to what Sky etc are paying them.  
Whilst globally the pressure won't be immense,  the pressure on the local arms of the studios will be, and will only grow as more people access content they aren't supposed to.
If it really takes off, Netflix will start using arbitrage to only buy content in the cheapest region, or maybe split it's content buying accross different regions to save money, then encourage customers in all other regions to just use unblocking services to access that version of it.

No way will the studios allow that to happen - they make too much money to just let it slip by.


My point is whichever way you cut it, the opportunity in NZ is 2% of the US market. I'd expect there to be some degree of customer size input into either the charges, or at the least the fee paid when re-negotiated, in which the additional Netflix US customers are just that (after all Netflix have their own criteria for signing up (which presumably the studios have agreed to), so they aren't able to see them as non-US accounts almost by definition.

Can't see this causing anything other than a one-time shift in revenue channels as far as the studios are concerned. Yes it will hurt (say) Sky to the benefit of (say) Netflix (note no ISP revenue involved as far as I can see)....

NonprayingMantis: If it really takes off, Netflix will start using arbitrage to only buy content in the cheapest region, or maybe split it's content buying accross different regions to save money, then encourage customers in all other regions to just use unblocking services to access that version of it.


Where Netflix deliver the content from any any cost implications for Netflix are a completely different issue to where it is accessed from as far as I can see. They could have a Netflix (say) Bermuda, but you would need a Neflix Bermuda-enabled account to access it, that would be entirely under Netflix' control and "their problem" as far as any implications for the content rights charges.

Again all IMHO.




Regards FireEngine


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Reply # 1116300 27-Aug-2014 10:19
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Yay, this is an awesome development Orcon, thank you thank you thank you!

Not bothered with Netflix, it's BBC I want. BBC iplayer is streaming perfectly on my desktop PC but can't get it to work with IOS on either iPad or iPhone, I just get an error ('The operation could not be completed'). Ideally I want to stream it via airplay to AppleTV; anyone got any suggestions for me?

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  Reply # 1116305 27-Aug-2014 10:23
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psychrn: BBC Iplayer working fine foe me on PC including downloading into the player for viewing later.  Have tried to download app to Asus Android tablet but says app not available in NZ ...


download the .apk and side load it. 




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  Reply # 1116321 27-Aug-2014 10:53
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FireEngine:
NonprayingMantis: AFAIK Netflix buys it's rights by region on a flat rate basis e.g. $1m per episode of X, not on a per customer basis.  So it won't be paying anything for all the extra customers that have signed up from NZ, Australia etc.  That's just money straight into their pockets and the studios get nothing extra for it.

Not only that, but even if the studios did get money from these extra subscribers,  we are talking very small amounts given Netflix's price is only $9USD/month, compared to what Sky etc are paying them.  
Whilst globally the pressure won't be immense,  the pressure on the local arms of the studios will be, and will only grow as more people access content they aren't supposed to.
If it really takes off, Netflix will start using arbitrage to only buy content in the cheapest region, or maybe split it's content buying accross different regions to save money, then encourage customers in all other regions to just use unblocking services to access that version of it.

No way will the studios allow that to happen - they make too much money to just let it slip by.


My point is whichever way you cut it, the opportunity in NZ is 2% of the US market. I'd expect there to be some degree of customer size input into either the charges, or at the least the fee paid when re-negotiated, in which the additional Netflix US customers are just that (after all Netflix have their own criteria for signing up (which presumably the studios have agreed to), so they aren't able to see them as non-US accounts almost by definition.

http://ir.netflix.com/faq.cfm#Question31066
How do you account for streaming content?

 

  • We generally license content for a fixed fee and a defined time period with payment terms varying by agreement.




Can't see this causing anything other than a one-time shift in revenue channels as far as the studios are concerned. Yes it will hurt (say) Sky to the benefit of (say) Netflix (note no ISP revenue involved as far as I can see)....

it's not just a 'shift'.  It's a massive reduction.  From Sky paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights, to Netflix paying nothing for NZ rights. No way are studios going to allow that to happen, especially if it gets out of control outside NZ, into Ozzie and other regions.  If they don't clamp down on it now, that is going to happen.  How long before iiNet see Slingshot and Orcon getting away with it and implement the same thing?


NonprayingMantis: If it really takes off, Netflix will start using arbitrage to only buy content in the cheapest region, or maybe split it's content buying accross different regions to save money, then encourage customers in all other regions to just use unblocking services to access that version of it.


Where Netflix deliver the content from any any cost implications for Netflix are a completely different issue to where it is accessed from as far as I can see. They could have a Netflix (say) Bermuda, but you would need a Neflix Bermuda-enabled account to access it, that would be entirely under Netflix' control and "their problem" as far as any implications for the content rights charges.

Again all IMHO.


actually you wouldn't - which is my point.   The good unblocking services (Unblock-us, unotelly etc) allow you to access any Netflix region - not just the one you subscribe to  (I realise the orcon service doesn't have this yet - no idea why you would implement an inferior service).

So Netflix could game it by buying rights for a region that would cost very little,  then anybody signing up for any Netflix region would be able to access it by using unblock-us or one of the many good unblocking services that allow region switching.  
If the studios let them continue to get away with feeble geographic protections like IP address, that is bound to happen.  Which is exactly why the studios won't let it happen.
Their next Netflix contract renegotiations I beleive will require much more stringent requirements around geoblocking - ones that smart DNS services won't be able to get around.

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  Reply # 1116412 27-Aug-2014 12:19
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NonprayingMantis: it's not just a 'shift'.  It's a massive reduction.  From Sky paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights, to Netflix paying nothing for NZ rights. No way are studios going to allow that to happen, especially if it gets out of control outside NZ, into Ozzie and other regions.  If they don't clamp down on it now, that is going to happen.  How long before iiNet see Slingshot and Orcon getting away with it and implement the same thing?


I don't know the answer to this but is Sky "paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights" for current content that isn't yet available on Netflix?  The content on Netflix seems to be older so maybe there isn't such a clash after all?

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  Reply # 1116432 27-Aug-2014 12:27
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Satch:
NonprayingMantis: it's not just a 'shift'.  It's a massive reduction.  From Sky paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights, to Netflix paying nothing for NZ rights. No way are studios going to allow that to happen, especially if it gets out of control outside NZ, into Ozzie and other regions.  If they don't clamp down on it now, that is going to happen.  How long before iiNet see Slingshot and Orcon getting away with it and implement the same thing?


I don't know the answer to this but is Sky "paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights" for current content that isn't yet available on Netflix?  The content on Netflix seems to be older so maybe there isn't such a clash after all?


some will be, and some won't be.   But bear in mind it's not just Netflix you are getting access to, it's also things like BBC iPlayer,  which has very current content on it, which Sky does pay premium for.  Or Hulu plus, which has very current US TV shows.

Netflix doesn't tend to do very much premium content - but they do have their own shows, like house of cards, orange is the new black,  which Sky/TVNZ/etc  would be paying a premium for to broadcast in NZ.

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  Reply # 1116435 27-Aug-2014 12:29
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NonprayingMantis:
Satch:
NonprayingMantis: it's not just a 'shift'.  It's a massive reduction.  From Sky paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights, to Netflix paying nothing for NZ rights. No way are studios going to allow that to happen, especially if it gets out of control outside NZ, into Ozzie and other regions.  If they don't clamp down on it now, that is going to happen.  How long before iiNet see Slingshot and Orcon getting away with it and implement the same thing?


I don't know the answer to this but is Sky "paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights" for current content that isn't yet available on Netflix?  The content on Netflix seems to be older so maybe there isn't such a clash after all?


some will be, and some won't be.   But bear in mind it's not just Netflix you are getting access to, it's also things like BBC iPlayer,  which has very current content on it, which Sky does pay premium for.  Or Hulu plus, which has very current US TV shows.

Netflix doesn't tend to do very much premium content - but they do have their own shows, like house of cards, orange is the new black,  which Sky/TVNZ/etc  would be paying a premium for to broadcast in NZ.


Well I would just enjoy it while you can, unless you are a Sky shareholder and have reason to moan about this :)

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  Reply # 1116438 27-Aug-2014 12:31
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Satch:
NonprayingMantis:
Satch:
NonprayingMantis: it's not just a 'shift'.  It's a massive reduction.  From Sky paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights, to Netflix paying nothing for NZ rights. No way are studios going to allow that to happen, especially if it gets out of control outside NZ, into Ozzie and other regions.  If they don't clamp down on it now, that is going to happen.  How long before iiNet see Slingshot and Orcon getting away with it and implement the same thing?


I don't know the answer to this but is Sky "paying hundreds of millions for exclusive NZ rights" for current content that isn't yet available on Netflix?  The content on Netflix seems to be older so maybe there isn't such a clash after all?


some will be, and some won't be.   But bear in mind it's not just Netflix you are getting access to, it's also things like BBC iPlayer,  which has very current content on it, which Sky does pay premium for.  Or Hulu plus, which has very current US TV shows.

Netflix doesn't tend to do very much premium content - but they do have their own shows, like house of cards, orange is the new black,  which Sky/TVNZ/etc  would be paying a premium for to broadcast in NZ.


Well I would just enjoy it while you can, unless you are a Sky shareholder and have reason to moan about this :)


Oh I do.  I'm just annoyed that Slingshot/Orcon  are likely to be getting the attention of the studios now - who will block it for everyone.

Before, when it was just a few of us using unblock-us etc we were well below the radar. It was great.  Now, with so much publicity about it, I think it is going to ruin everything.  :(

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