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  Reply # 1118801 30-Aug-2014 23:11
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FireEngine: 

Are you commenting abut the iPlayer app? That is the BBC's, not ours....


Getting you mixed up with Lightbox I think :)

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  Reply # 1118922 31-Aug-2014 12:45
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kiwirock: So I wonder how it works?

Does this extra freedom in Newton's law suggest, come at a price of an opposite and equal reaction somewhere else? Perhaps adding some extra NAT'ing to the likes of Netflix servers? Or added filterting and caching therefore additions to latency etc...?

I wonder how long before Orcon TV ads are banned if they are set to help wriggle around legal loop-holes for getting their customers watching content not licensed for broadcast or streaming not agreed in writting by he copyright owner?

A lot of people gave Kim Dotcom flack about shady Megaupload in the past... but kiwi companies like Orcon help find shady ways to profit at the expense of finding some legal loop-holes and help remove revenue from those that work to create the content in the first place.

I find 'Global Modes' to be ethically wrong, and a reflection of the increase acceptance to virtually pirate content if you have a connection to the Internet.

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.



Yep, and a draconian one it is!

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  Reply # 1118940 31-Aug-2014 13:22
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kiwirock: So I wonder how it works?

Does this extra freedom in Newton's law suggest, come at a price of an opposite and equal reaction somewhere else? Perhaps adding some extra NAT'ing to the likes of Netflix servers? Or added filterting and caching therefore additions to latency etc...?

I wonder how long before Orcon TV ads are banned if they are set to help wriggle around legal loop-holes for getting their customers watching content not licensed for broadcast or streaming not agreed in writting by he copyright owner?

A lot of people gave Kim Dotcom flack about shady Megaupload in the past... but kiwi companies like Orcon help find shady ways to profit at the expense of finding some legal loop-holes and help remove revenue from those that work to create the content in the first place.

I find 'Global Modes' to be ethically wrong, and a reflection of the increase acceptance to virtually pirate content if you have a connection to the Internet.

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.




Do you really think the money charged extra, by the local TV giant, to rip you off goes to the copyright owners? Really? Why would the copyright owners want new zealand to pay double what other countries are paying. Did we piss them off somewhere along the line? 

There is nothing shady about this. We prefer to pay money to someone who isn't out to rip us off. We get more for that money we pay them as well. They get their money in the end. If you ask me, the likes of the big giants here trying anything possible to keep there current clients from NOT being ripped off by going somewhere else, and forcing them into a clearly monopolized area where they have no way out is shady.

The days of companies no longer monopolizing industries and ripping there customers off have come. You might as well say I should not be allowed to buy products on amazon for half the price than what they sell here. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me where I can buy my sh*t from. Same goes for my services.

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  Reply # 1119037 31-Aug-2014 17:44
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I have tried Global Mode on Orcon and it went ok for a while, then a couple of days ago it all went pear-shaped. Streaming Netflix for the kids was not so good. Didn't work in fact until I went back on my GetFlix IP address. After that, no trouble.

I might renew my subscription.

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  Reply # 1119039 31-Aug-2014 17:50
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tgzerozone:
kiwirock: So I wonder how it works?

Does this extra freedom in Newton's law suggest, come at a price of an opposite and equal reaction somewhere else? Perhaps adding some extra NAT'ing to the likes of Netflix servers? Or added filterting and caching therefore additions to latency etc...?

I wonder how long before Orcon TV ads are banned if they are set to help wriggle around legal loop-holes for getting their customers watching content not licensed for broadcast or streaming not agreed in writting by he copyright owner?

A lot of people gave Kim Dotcom flack about shady Megaupload in the past... but kiwi companies like Orcon help find shady ways to profit at the expense of finding some legal loop-holes and help remove revenue from those that work to create the content in the first place.

I find 'Global Modes' to be ethically wrong, and a reflection of the increase acceptance to virtually pirate content if you have a connection to the Internet.

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.




Do you really think the money charged extra, by the local TV giant, to rip you off goes to the copyright owners? Really? Why would the copyright owners want new zealand to pay double what other countries are paying. Did we piss them off somewhere along the line? 

There is nothing shady about this. We prefer to pay money to someone who isn't out to rip us off. We get more for that money we pay them as well. They get their money in the end. If you ask me, the likes of the big giants here trying anything possible to keep there current clients from NOT being ripped off by going somewhere else, and forcing them into a clearly monopolized area where they have no way out is shady.

The days of companies no longer monopolizing industries and ripping there customers off have come. You might as well say I should not be allowed to buy products on amazon for half the price than what they sell here. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me where I can buy my sh*t from. Same goes for my services.


Hmmm, I wonder how you feel about having your job offshored to India?

 

I like Geounblocking and I think it's tolerated by Netflix and Amazon, but I cannot access any premium content (I have an Amazon Fire and the accompanying Prime account). If I want new stuff I have to pay for it via the local iTunes store and I don't have AppleTV. I have mixed feelings about having access via Amazon anyway. It would cost about the same, if not more

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  Reply # 1119104 31-Aug-2014 19:40
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tgzerozone:
kiwirock: So I wonder how it works?

Does this extra freedom in Newton's law suggest, come at a price of an opposite and equal reaction somewhere else? Perhaps adding some extra NAT'ing to the likes of Netflix servers? Or added filterting and caching therefore additions to latency etc...?

I wonder how long before Orcon TV ads are banned if they are set to help wriggle around legal loop-holes for getting their customers watching content not licensed for broadcast or streaming not agreed in writting by he copyright owner?

A lot of people gave Kim Dotcom flack about shady Megaupload in the past... but kiwi companies like Orcon help find shady ways to profit at the expense of finding some legal loop-holes and help remove revenue from those that work to create the content in the first place.

I find 'Global Modes' to be ethically wrong, and a reflection of the increase acceptance to virtually pirate content if you have a connection to the Internet.

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.




Do you really think the money charged extra, by the local TV giant, to rip you off goes to the copyright owners?


Yes, a lot of it does.
Sky pays about $200m in content rights each year.  (about 30% of their revenue)
At $9US per month, (say, $11 NZD, Netflix generates about $140 per subscriber in Revenue per year.  If 50% of that goes on rights, that's about $70 per subscriber.  To generate the same revenue for the content owner, Netflix would need to get  almost 3m subscriber in NZ. Given there are only 1.5m households, that is a bit of a stretch.

Yes, those numbers are drastically simplified, but the point is traditional Pay TV generates a shed load more money for content owners than Netflix does.

And all that assumes that money we pay for Netflix actually goes to content owners, which is actually not the case since Netflix doesn't pay for content on a 'per subscriber' basis. They pay flat fees for different regions.
Since they currently pay $0 for NZ, all the extra money we pay them (including me - I susbscribe to Netflix) goes into their pockets, not into the pockets of the studios who create the content.
If you think you are cutting out the middleman by using Netflix, you're actually doing the reverse.


Really? Why would the copyright owners want new zealand to pay double what other countries are paying. Did we piss them off somewhere along the line? 

uhhh, because they make more money that way.  Thats what profit seeking companies do - charge as much as they can get away with.


There is nothing shady about this. We prefer to pay money to someone who isn't out to rip us off. We get more for that money we pay them as well. They get their money in the end. If you ask me, the likes of the big giants here trying anything possible to keep there current clients from NOT being ripped off by going somewhere else, and forcing them into a clearly monopolized area where they have no way out is shady.

The days of companies no longer monopolizing industries and ripping there customers off have come. You might as well say I should not be allowed to buy products on amazon for half the price than what they sell here. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me where I can buy my sh*t from. Same goes for my services.

I agree, we should be able to by from whoever we want, although I do think there should be at least a level playing field. 
when you buy stuff off amazon, a physical product still has all the costs of manufacture regardless of where it is ultimately sold.
With Netflix, (and other digital product) there is no 'cost of manufacture'. You instead buy a licence. If you are buying that licence fraduulently, it's really not all that different from copyright infringement. (and again, I do that too - I just don't think we should be getting all high and mighty when what we are doing is immoral at best (breaching contracts), and potentially illegal - it's never actually been tested in NZ courts)

The level playing field is quite iportant too.  We rant and rave about having no NZ alternatives to Netflix, but look at what a doemstic alternative has to actually do.  Take Lightbox, for example (closest local comparator to Netflix), They have to pay NZ GST, NZ tax on any profit, pay for NZ rights to all the content.  Netflix currently pays none of that. Every Netfix subscriber in NZ is pure 100% profit for Netflix.

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  Reply # 1119218 31-Aug-2014 22:52
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NonprayingMantis:
tgzerozone:
kiwirock: So I wonder how it works?

Does this extra freedom in Newton's law suggest, come at a price of an opposite and equal reaction somewhere else? Perhaps adding some extra NAT'ing to the likes of Netflix servers? Or added filterting and caching therefore additions to latency etc...?

I wonder how long before Orcon TV ads are banned if they are set to help wriggle around legal loop-holes for getting their customers watching content not licensed for broadcast or streaming not agreed in writting by he copyright owner?

A lot of people gave Kim Dotcom flack about shady Megaupload in the past... but kiwi companies like Orcon help find shady ways to profit at the expense of finding some legal loop-holes and help remove revenue from those that work to create the content in the first place.

I find 'Global Modes' to be ethically wrong, and a reflection of the increase acceptance to virtually pirate content if you have a connection to the Internet.

Of course, that is just my personal opinion.




Do you really think the money charged extra, by the local TV giant, to rip you off goes to the copyright owners?


Yes, a lot of it does.
Sky pays about $200m in content rights each year.  (about 30% of their revenue)
At $9US per month, (say, $11 NZD, Netflix generates about $140 per subscriber in Revenue per year.  If 50% of that goes on rights, that's about $70 per subscriber.  To generate the same revenue for the content owner, Netflix would need to get  almost 3m subscriber in NZ. Given there are only 1.5m households, that is a bit of a stretch.

Yes, those numbers are drastically simplified, but the point is traditional Pay TV generates a shed load more money for content owners than Netflix does.

And all that assumes that money we pay for Netflix actually goes to content owners, which is actually not the case since Netflix doesn't pay for content on a 'per subscriber' basis. They pay flat fees for different regions.
Since they currently pay $0 for NZ, all the extra money we pay them (including me - I susbscribe to Netflix) goes into their pockets, not into the pockets of the studios who create the content.
If you think you are cutting out the middleman by using Netflix, you're actually doing the reverse.


Really? Why would the copyright owners want new zealand to pay double what other countries are paying. Did we piss them off somewhere along the line? 

uhhh, because they make more money that way.  Thats what profit seeking companies do - charge as much as they can get away with.


There is nothing shady about this. We prefer to pay money to someone who isn't out to rip us off. We get more for that money we pay them as well. They get their money in the end. If you ask me, the likes of the big giants here trying anything possible to keep there current clients from NOT being ripped off by going somewhere else, and forcing them into a clearly monopolized area where they have no way out is shady.

The days of companies no longer monopolizing industries and ripping there customers off have come. You might as well say I should not be allowed to buy products on amazon for half the price than what they sell here. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me where I can buy my sh*t from. Same goes for my services.

I agree, we should be able to by from whoever we want, although I do think there should be at least a level playing field. 
when you buy stuff off amazon, a physical product still has all the costs of manufacture regardless of where it is ultimately sold.
With Netflix, (and other digital product) there is no 'cost of manufacture'. You instead buy a licence. If you are buying that licence fraduulently, it's really not all that different from copyright infringement. (and again, I do that too - I just don't think we should be getting all high and mighty when what we are doing is immoral at best (breaching contracts), and potentially illegal - it's never actually been tested in NZ courts)

The level playing field is quite iportant too.  We rant and rave about having no NZ alternatives to Netflix, but look at what a doemstic alternative has to actually do.  Take Lightbox, for example (closest local comparator to Netflix), They have to pay NZ GST, NZ tax on any profit, pay for NZ rights to all the content.  Netflix currently pays none of that. Every Netfix subscriber in NZ is pure 100% profit for Netflix.


Although they still pay US taxes?

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  Reply # 1119221 31-Aug-2014 23:13
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I dont find buying from netflix instead of sky immoral at all. I think it is the right thing to do, to get the items you want at the lowest price possible (legally).

I would love to know what basis you think it could be illegal. Personal importation is expressly legal. I am not reselling it to anyone else, so I dont have to worry about the censorship rating BS, I am giving the address of my import agent I use when I sign up, and I am using a "reshipper" in the form of unotelly or whoever to re-export the items to me. None of the items are on the US export restriction list last time I looked.




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  Reply # 1119384 1-Sep-2014 10:11
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ErnieII: I have tried Global Mode on Orcon and it went ok for a while, then a couple of days ago it all went pear-shaped. Streaming Netflix for the kids was not so good. Didn't work in fact until I went back on my GetFlix IP address. After that, no trouble.

I might renew my subscription.


I'm thinking of going back to unblockus, Netflix has issues with global mode.
When logging in (firefox/IE/chrome) netflix gets to the select profile screen, you click on your profile and it will error repeatedly, each time you press the try again button and it will eventually work.  You can then watch a few shows and it then stops completely saying there is an issue with the internet connection, at this point you have to close the browser and try again.

Had a chat around the office and other Orcon users had the same issues.

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  Reply # 1119389 1-Sep-2014 10:17
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plas:
ErnieII: I have tried Global Mode on Orcon and it went ok for a while, then a couple of days ago it all went pear-shaped. Streaming Netflix for the kids was not so good. Didn't work in fact until I went back on my GetFlix IP address. After that, no trouble.

I might renew my subscription.


I'm thinking of going back to unblockus, Netflix has issues with global mode.
When logging in (firefox/IE/chrome) netflix gets to the select profile screen, you click on your profile and it will error repeatedly, each time you press the try again button and it will eventually work.  You can then watch a few shows and it then stops completely saying there is an issue with the internet connection, at this point you have to close the browser and try again.

Had a chat around the office and other Orcon users had the same issues.



Netflix was moving content around over the weekend, which caused issues.

Those have now been resolved, so should be good to go now.



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  Reply # 1119433 1-Sep-2014 11:06
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richms: I dont find buying from netflix instead of sky immoral at all.

you make an agreement with Netflix which you immediately breach. To me that is immoral. 


I think it is the right thing to do, to get the items you want at the lowest price possible (legally).

I would love to know what basis you think it could be illegal. Personal importation is expressly legal. I am not reselling it to anyone else, so I dont have to worry about the censorship rating BS, I am giving the address of my import agent I use when I sign up, and I am using a "reshipper" in the form of unotelly or whoever to re-export the items to me. None of the items are on the US export restriction list last time I looked.


it could be illegal if the courts agree that it doesn't fall under the current 'parallel importing rules'  Also, whether it is even importing at all is debatable - it's a subscription service with no physical product, and potentially even some of the content is actually hosted in NZ on Akamai's CDN. How can it be importing if there is nothing there to import?

So far, it hasn't been tested.





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  Reply # 1119458 1-Sep-2014 11:32
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I see the same arguments about legality/morality/profitability etc have emerged

Maybe this is the beginning of the end for archaic, geo-blocked service provision.  We're used to overseas service provision (eg call centres), personal imports, using websites to get the best deal on rental cars (I use a UK broker to get good rates in NZ for example).  We happily, and legally, unlock DVD players to work around the archaic region coding of discs, which was only originally justified by the costs of making celluloid copies of film reels.  Thirty years ago, if you wanted to book a flight, or a hotel in Hawaii, you went to the local travel agent and paid whatever they asked.  If you wanted a book, you went to Whitcoulls and paid the RRP, no questions asked, despite this being twice the UK RRP.

Perhaps in five/ten years time we'll look back in amusement at the idea of paying extra for a globally available digital content stream, just because we happen to live in NZ?

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