Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




739 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 32


Topic # 173452 24-May-2015 01:27
Send private message

I'm sick and tired of getting this message (and variations of it) emailing from Orcon to TalkTalk ISP in the UK

<<< 554 Your access to this mail system has been rejected due to the sending MTA's poor reputation. If you believe that this failure is in error, please contact the intended recipient via alternate means.


Orcon, wake your ideas up. I'm paying you #120 a month.




Cheers - Kirk

Create new topic
5405 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1438

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1310654 24-May-2015 01:57
Send private message

Not really Orcon's fault. The recipient server needs to use a less zealous blacklist service. Regardless it's a consumer email service shared among many customers over which Orcon can't really control the user behavior. If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.



739 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  Reply # 1310655 24-May-2015 02:06
2 people support this post
Send private message

Orcon *are* my dedicated email provider.  If they can't deliver the goods they should stop providing the service.
No excuses.   You take my money,  you deliver the goods.  Seems fair enough to me.

 
 
 
 


698 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 335


  Reply # 1310666 24-May-2015 07:47
Send private message

gehenna: If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.


The only thing less professional than using your ISPs mail server is using one of these companies for your e-mail. Neither are dedicated e-mail providers, and Google already has far too much information about everyone. Last I checked, Google also had a non-compliant IMAP system.

ADKM:


You haven't mentioned how you are sending e-mail. Are you using a client or Webmail? Are you a single user, or is this business e-mail?

Unfortunately there is not much which can be done about remote servers which don't play by the rules (notable RFC 821 violations etc.), and use of blacklists, but there are ways to work around some issues, and inexpensive options you may wish to consider to assist with mail delivery, depending on your requirements and technical skills.

14642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2722

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1310669 24-May-2015 08:22
2 people support this post
Send private message

I move a lot of small businesses to gmail, sending using their own domains. If you need information or help drop me a message.

895 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 285


  Reply # 1310674 24-May-2015 09:16
Send private message

gehenna: Not really Orcon's fault. The recipient server needs to use a less zealous blacklist service. Regardless it's a consumer email service shared among many customers over which Orcon can't really control the user behavior. If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.


Running an internet-facing mail service these days is hard and requires significant resources.  You need to maintain your outbound MTAs reputation (and therefore, customer sources of spam), and deal with inbound spam.  If you don't, people start rejecting your mail.

I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam.  But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free).  My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons.  One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything.  Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.



BDFL - Memuneh
63017 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 13592

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1310675 24-May-2015 09:18
One person supports this post
Send private message

SirHumphreyAppleby:
gehenna: If you have a need for a more reliable service you should be looking at dedicated email providers like Office 365 or Google Apps, etc.


The only thing less professional than using your ISPs mail server is using one of these companies for your e-mail. Neither are dedicated e-mail providers, and Google already has far too much information about everyone. Last I checked, Google also had a non-compliant IMAP system.


I think you are confusing matters here. Using an ISP email service for personal messages is ok, providing you realise it's open to everyone in the service and there are bad apples. And those bad apples will spoil for everyone, regardless of how much effort an ISP put into that.

Now, using an ISP address for professional messages (or even Gmail, Yahoo) looks unprofessional. However Office 365 and Google Apps are very different from using Gmail, Yahoo and other services because with Office 365 and Google Apps you will be using your own domain, those services are correctly configured (and you can go the extra mile by configuring correct DNS information in your own domain).

Don't like how Google Apps implement IMAP? No problem, you can select another provider. Rather use Exchange/ActiveSync? Sure, go Office 365 or again select another provider.

This is the beauty of not using your ISP's own email: it's a lot better.





BDFL - Memuneh
63017 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 13592

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1310676 24-May-2015 09:23
2 people support this post
Send private message

deadlyllama: I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam.  But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free).  My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons.  One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything.  Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.


Email is a two way affair. You might have the best email server configuration but if the other side stuff up then your messages will be lost. Orcon can configure whatever they want, if the other side incorrectly identify spam, or if the other side has too strict rules... Too bad for the sender.





895 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 285


  Reply # 1311075 25-May-2015 09:36
One person supports this post
Send private message

freitasm:
deadlyllama: I used to run my own mailserver -- even used a semi-custom SMTP-time mail scanner to reject spam.  But maintaining a decent level of service was too hard, and eventually I threw up my hands in despair and switched to Google Apps (back when it was free).  My custom filter included rejecting mail for lots of reasons.  One was to reject mail from mailservers that didn't have reverse DNS, which seemed reasonable enough... until I found out that the Capital Coast DHB didn't have reverse DNS for anything.  Goodness knows how much trouble they would have had with email being rejected.


Email is a two way affair. You might have the best email server configuration but if the other side stuff up then your messages will be lost. Orcon can configure whatever they want, if the other side incorrectly identify spam, or if the other side has too strict rules... Too bad for the sender.



It's not just your mail server configuration.  You need to keep a lid on spammers using your outbound mail servers, or your mailservers' reputation will take a nosedive and other people's mail servers (like the TalkTalk one mentioned by the OP) will start rejecting mail from yours.  This is tricky when you are an ISP, and your customers get infected by viruses/botnets/etc which start using the ISP server to relay spam -- this is a really good reason to require SMTP authentication.

It's also tricky when your customers are dumb and send spam themselves...

457 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 28

Trusted

  Reply # 1311453 25-May-2015 17:15
Send private message

The problem with ISP email is 100,000's of people use the same MTA, due to the high numbers of users the higher the chance their sender MTA will be blocked. One of the biggest problems is users set either simple passwords or use the same password to login sites as their ISP email password. Due to this ISP's Email servers often have low reputation, and your ISP is not Google so they cant offer a Google like service.

 

My Advice if you want control setup your own MTA off your internet connection get a static IP then you have control over who connects and your reputation.




---------------------------------------------------------------
Nebukadnessar


14724 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1987


  Reply # 1311467 25-May-2015 17:34
Send private message

timmmay: I move a lot of small businesses to gmail, sending using their own domains. If you need information or help drop me a message.

 

Gmail servers also gets blacklisted. I tried to email a NZ company today and it bounced back to say that gmails IP had a low reputation and was bounced back.

14642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2722

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1311479 25-May-2015 17:43
Send private message

Nebbie: The problem with ISP email is 100,000's of people use the same MTA, due to the high numbers of users the higher the chance their sender MTA will be blocked. One of the biggest problems is users set either simple passwords or use the same password to login sites as their ISP email password. Due to this ISP's Email servers often have low reputation, and your ISP is not Google so they cant offer a Google like service. My Advice if you want control setup your own MTA off your internet connection get a static IP then you have control over who connects and your reputation.


Then you have to deal with spam yourself, keeping yourself off blacklists, etc. Gmail/Fastmail are easier.



739 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  Reply # 1311682 25-May-2015 22:37
Send private message

Another bounced one today was replying to one from the Ministry of Primary industies...

14642 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2722

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1311751 26-May-2015 07:42
Send private message

It's obviously not meeting your needs. Move to a different email provider. If you need to move a domain it's not difficult, but I do that for customers fairly regularly. If you have your own domain Zoho Mail I think is free, Gmail is US$5/month, fastmail is in between.

Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Orcon announces new always-on internet service for Small Business
Posted 18-Apr-2019 10:19


Spark Sport prices for Rugby World Cup 2019 announced
Posted 16-Apr-2019 07:58


2degrees launches new unlimited mobile plan
Posted 15-Apr-2019 09:35


Redgate brings together major industry speakers for SQL in the City Summits
Posted 13-Apr-2019 12:35


Exported honey authenticated on Blockchain
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:19


HPE and Nutanix partner to deliver hybrid cloud as a service
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:12


Southern Cross and ASN sign contract for Southern Cross NEXT
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:09


Data security top New Zealand consumer priority when choosing a bank
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:07


Samsung announces first 8K screens to hit New Zealand
Posted 10-Apr-2019 21:03


New cyber-protection and insurance product for businesses launched in APAC
Posted 10-Apr-2019 20:59


Kiwis ensure streaming is never interrupted by opting for uncapped broadband plans
Posted 7-Apr-2019 09:05


DHL Express introduces new MyDHL+ online portal to make shipping easier
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:51


RackWare hybrid cloud platform removes barriers to enterprise cloud adoption
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:50


Top partner named at MYOB High Achievers Awards
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:48


Great ideas start in Gisborne with hackathon event back for another round
Posted 7-Apr-2019 08:42



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.