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125 posts

Master Geek

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# 179204 31-Aug-2015 10:30
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Hello everyone

I migrated away from Orcon just over month ago. They'd provided a good level of service, but in terms of monthly cost, I found that Bigpipe were more competitive.

You pay Orcon in advance, so I'd expect that nearly everybody ends up with their account balance in credit when they leave.

Unfortunately, getting that balance refunded to you is like getting blood from a stone.

Orcon owe me $89.09. There is absolutely no indication that you will ever receive that money back unless you harass them. For me, it's now been 33 days. Two emails and one phone call later - in which I had to get quite irate with the overseas helpdesk staff member who tried to give me the fob-off and say that I couldn't be refunded until this Friday at the earliest, which after a wait of over a month is downright insulting - they are now apparently issuing an 'emergency refund' (!), as if they're doing me a huge favour by giving me my own money back. We'll have to see whether it appears on my card over the next few days.

Orcon's behaviour is dishonest and completely inexcusable.

It is absolutely not OK to either a) fail to refund customers' money unless they actively pursue it; or b) make customers wait an unreasonable length of time.

I didn't leave Orcon in anger and would have been pleased to return to them if their prices were to become more competitive in the future. Now the chances of my ever doing business with Orcon again are very slim. What a shame.

Please: I'm sure a lot of people leave Orcon and forget they're owed money, or otherwise don't bother to pursue it, and I'm sure Orcon are quite happy about this. Don't let them get away with it. It's never too late to ensure you get that refund as they'll nominally be keeping it 'on account' for you.

(NB to Orcon staff reading this: Thank you for all your help in the past - you were great. I'm not fishing for your intervention with this post, unless you want to inform your management that Orcon's business practices are unacceptable.)

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6615 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 1376932 31-Aug-2015 10:38
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Can happily say when at Vodafone we would sometimes have customers who would just pay say $20 more each month as they just have an AP setup.
Some of them after 2 years might have a credit of $200 that i would refund if they wanted it. 
No one would ever hesitate to offer one and always process one up on request.

Its a shame to hear that you had that experience. Appears to be quite dishonest.

282 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1376963 31-Aug-2015 11:20
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I've had the same experience with Vodafone, TimA. They happily sent me a refund within a couple of days when I disconnected, and was more than I expected which was nice.

 
 
 
 


6434 posts

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  # 1376986 31-Aug-2015 11:38
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I would think that when accounts are closed, any balance should automatically be refunded to the customer (assuming they have the means to do it e.g. bank details, credit card details).  You definitely shouldn't need to be contacting Orcon about that.




125 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1377011 31-Aug-2015 12:14
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NonprayingMantis: I would think that when accounts are closed, any balance should automatically be refunded to the customer (assuming they have the means to do it e.g. bank details, credit card details).  You definitely shouldn't need to be contacting Orcon about that.


Agreed.

On the quiet, I also manage my (elderly) mother's Internet account, and I moved her away from Orcon to Bigpipe a week or so after mine. The account is in her name and we have different last names.

Precisely the same thing has happened to her.

This isn't an accident. It's Orcon policy, and it's a bare-faced con.

270 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vocus

  # 1377012 31-Aug-2015 12:17
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Hi there,

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the trouble you've had trying to secure your refund. We aim to process refunds as quickly as possible, with most requests paid out on a weekly basis. It is disappointing to read that this hasn't been your experience.

Your post suggests that it is our standard business practice to make it difficult for outgoing customers to obtain a refund. This is categorically not the case and the experience you've had isn't reflective of the experience the vast majority of our customers receive.

From your comments it seems the team now have this in hand, however I would appreciate it if you could send me a PM with your account information so I can see if I can identify where we fell over on this one.

Cheers,

Cam



125 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1377023 31-Aug-2015 12:43
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bameron: Hi there,

Firstly, please accept my apologies for the trouble you've had trying to secure your refund. We aim to process refunds as quickly as possible, with most requests paid out on a weekly basis. It is disappointing to read that this hasn't been your experience.

Your post suggests that it is our standard business practice to make it difficult for outgoing customers to obtain a refund. This is categorically not the case and the experience you've had isn't reflective of the experience the vast majority of our customers receive.

From your comments it seems the team now have this in hand, however I would appreciate it if you could send me a PM with your account information so I can see if I can identify where we fell over on this one.

Cheers,

Cam


Hi Cam -

You were very helpful to me in the past, for which I was very grateful, but your response is disingenuous and I won't let it go unchallenged.

For starters: When the final invoice is provided by Orcon, a) it arrives some time after the customer is no longer receiving service from Orcon, even though it could easily be sent out immediately; and b) it just states "No payment required, thank you." There is no information whatsoever about when the balance will be refunded, or how customers go about receiving a refund.

It appears to be deliberately left up to the customer to notice and actively pursue. This is dishonest and an unacceptable way of doing business.

Please reply to this thread and state in public what Orcon's standard procedure is when customers stop receiving service from Orcon but have an account that is in credit.

I'll send you a PM in a moment with the account number, but I'm not going to send you the number for the other account I mentioned earlier in this thread. I shall be watching what happens to it with interest.

6615 posts

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  # 1377046 31-Aug-2015 13:26
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Just to be sure, Did you give them the minimum lead time to process this?
Sometimes if you let them know in the same billing month they can legally charge a whole month as they have paid Chorus for the line to be connected for that month.



 
 
 
 




125 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1377050 31-Aug-2015 13:31
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TimA: Just to be sure, Did you give them the minimum lead time to process this?


Absolutely! They were actually given over the minimum notice period.

6675 posts

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  # 1377051 31-Aug-2015 13:35
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TimA: No one would ever hesitate to offer one and always process one up on request.

ghettomaster: I've had the same experience with Vodafone, TimA. They happily sent me a refund within a couple of days when I disconnected, and was more than I expected which was nice.

Hmm, I wonder how long Vodafone holds onto account details for. I closed my account in 2008 and lost around $75 which they wouldn't refund - I wonder what would happen if I asked for it back now!

270 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Vocus

  # 1377053 31-Aug-2015 13:42
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Let me be as clear as I possibly can: it is not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund. It's somewhat concerning that you seem to be intent on establishing some kind of conspiracy is at work here when this absolutely not true.

Does this mean that our refund process is perfect and requires no improvement? Absolutely not. That's the reason I invited you to send me a PM with your account information - so I can look through what happened and see what improvements we can make.

To clarify our current position on refunds: we do not have the ability within our existing systems to process a refund automatically - customers must contact us to get this underway. You've already identified what I feel could be a decent improvement to the process by re-wording the final invoice to include an invitation to contact us to organise the refund, so I'll definitely raise this one with the team to see if that's feasible.

I've received your PM - thanks for sending that through - I'll be sure to take a look and pass any further recommendations along to the team.

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  # 1377058 31-Aug-2015 13:54
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bameron: Let me be as clear as I possibly can: it is not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund. It's somewhat concerning that you seem to be intent on establishing some kind of conspiracy is at work here when this absolutely not true.

Does this mean that our refund process is perfect and requires no improvement? Absolutely not. That's the reason I invited you to send me a PM with your account information - so I can look through what happened and see what improvements we can make.

To clarify our current position on refunds: we do not have the ability within our existing systems to process a refund automatically - customers must contact us to get this underway. You've already identified what I feel could be a decent improvement to the process by re-wording the final invoice to include an invitation to contact us to organise the refund, so I'll definitely raise this one with the team to see if that's feasible.

I've received your PM - thanks for sending that through - I'll be sure to take a look and pass any further recommendations along to the team.


To be fair, you could understand the conclusion that most people would draw when the issue has occurred to not ONE, but TWO accounts, within a short period of time, it makes it look EXACTLY like it's policy to make it difficult. 

I can attest the same thing occurred me to 5 years ago, so that would make 3.




125 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1377070 31-Aug-2015 14:13
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bameron: Let me be as clear as I possibly can: it is not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund. It's somewhat concerning that you seem to be intent on establishing some kind of conspiracy is at work here when this absolutely not true.


All right. So it's not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund, but - whoops a daisy! - you seem to accidentally do it anyway.

How many of your former customers have never received a refund they should have been due by rights? When they fail to contact you to initiate the refund, it's their own fault, right? And they should know better than to expect to be treated by Orcon with honesty and fairness, yes? Or perhaps they're leaving the money behind as a gratuity? Or is it that they just want to leave the money with you because it's safer than keeping it in the bank?

As for attempting to slight me by implying that I'm a nut trying to establish some kind of conspiracy, you've only made yourself look bad. Doubly so by attempting to defend the indefensible. Your own post provides evidence for my point perfectly. Thank you.

bameron: Does this mean that our refund process is perfect and requires no improvement? Absolutely not. That's the reason I invited you to send me a PM with your account information - so I can look through what happened and see what improvements we can make.


Well, I think I speak for everyone on this forum when I say that we're all charming, socially-conscious people and await details of these improvements, and when they'll be enacted, with bated breath. Naturally, I'm sure, these 'improvements' will involve Orcon proactively contacting all former customers who have unwittingly left non-refunded money on account, apologising to them, and giving them a full and prompt refund.

Perhaps you'd like to come back and update this thread when those improvements have been duly identified and made.

bameron: To clarify our current position on refunds: we do not have the ability within our existing systems to process a refund automatically - customers must contact us to get this underway. You've already identified what I feel could be a decent improvement to the process by re-wording the final invoice to include an invitation to contact us to organise the refund, so I'll definitely raise this one with the team to see if that's feasible.


I can see there might be a great deal of technical difficulty changing the wording on an automatically-generated invoice. If you need a consultant to come in, give me a ring and I'll be happy to tell you my rate.

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  # 1377117 31-Aug-2015 14:59
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MrTomato:
bameron: Let me be as clear as I possibly can: it is not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund. It's somewhat concerning that you seem to be intent on establishing some kind of conspiracy is at work here when this absolutely not true.


All right. So it's not Orcon's policy to make it difficult for customers to obtain a refund, but - whoops a daisy! - you seem to accidentally do it anyway.

How many of your former customers have never received a refund they should have been due by rights? When they fail to contact you to initiate the refund, it's their own fault, right? And they should know better than to expect to be treated by Orcon with honesty and fairness, yes? Or perhaps they're leaving the money behind as a gratuity? Or is it that they just want to leave the money with you because it's safer than keeping it in the bank?

As for attempting to slight me by implying that I'm a nut trying to establish some kind of conspiracy, you've only made yourself look bad. Doubly so by attempting to defend the indefensible. Your own post provides evidence for my point perfectly. Thank you.

bameron: Does this mean that our refund process is perfect and requires no improvement? Absolutely not. That's the reason I invited you to send me a PM with your account information - so I can look through what happened and see what improvements we can make.


Well, I think I speak for everyone on this forum when I say that we're all charming, socially-conscious people and await details of these improvements, and when they'll be enacted, with bated breath. Naturally, I'm sure, these 'improvements' will involve Orcon proactively contacting all former customers who have unwittingly left non-refunded money on account, apologising to them, and giving them a full and prompt refund.

Perhaps you'd like to come back and update this thread when those improvements have been duly identified and made.

bameron: To clarify our current position on refunds: we do not have the ability within our existing systems to process a refund automatically - customers must contact us to get this underway. You've already identified what I feel could be a decent improvement to the process by re-wording the final invoice to include an invitation to contact us to organise the refund, so I'll definitely raise this one with the team to see if that's feasible.


I can see there might be a great deal of technical difficulty changing the wording on an automatically-generated invoice. If you need a consultant to come in, give me a ring and I'll be happy to tell you my rate.


Ok Ok, settle down I think you've made your point :)

He is just doing his job, and he isn't the CEO so let's not jump all over him too hard.



125 posts

Master Geek

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  # 1377209 31-Aug-2015 16:41
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networkn: Ok Ok, settle down I think you've made your point :)

He is just doing his job, and he isn't the CEO so let's not jump all over him too hard.


Fair enough, and thanks for making the point.

Unfortunately for Cam, part of his job seems to be to front for Orcon on these forums, so that means he's got to drink some of the juice.

He could have replied with a straightforward acknowledgement of the problem, a promise to get it resolved for all concerned, and, optionally, an apology. No problem. Mistakes and accidental oversights happen, and everyone understands that. A promise from Orcon to spring into action would have reflected very well on them.

But that's not what we got. Cam's response consisted of newspeak, weasel words and excuses.

I'm all right. I'm sure I'll get my money back. My mother too - I asked her to call them again this afternoon and she was told that the refund would be processed immediately, so perhaps something's changed for the better over the course of the day. Others aren't so lucky. To all intents and purposes they've been conned. It's not OK.

The fact that we put up with this sort of stuff in New Zealand infuriates me. Orcon's behaviour would cause a - er - 'faecal hurricane' in the UK, for example, and in the US they probably would have faced a class action lawsuit already. Here? We just take it. We take it because we let them serve it up.

262 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1377251 31-Aug-2015 17:33
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I was with Orcon 5, 6 or 7 years ago and cancelled my internet and was in credit in my account as I could still log in via my "free" email account and though I would just leave it in credit as when I moved I could rejoin, but within months the credit was gone, I never had any email/letter about it, so I couldn't be bothered chasing it up, just will never rejoin with them.

Looks like this has been going on for some time.

PS, I just logged in to my Orcon account after "who knows how long" and it all works with a 0.00 balance.




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