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8 posts

Wannabe Geek
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Topic # 185740 3-Dec-2015 13:48
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Hi, 

Why would Orcon charge me for an early termination fee for Fibre if I'll move house? Still within the 12-months contract. Sure it's in the T&C - 99% of the users don't really read that though.

But why would Orcon charge if I just want to move to a different address? 
If I am going to pay for an early termination fee, no way I'm coming to Orcon. But that's not what I wanted. I just want to move to a different house, wants to retain my service with Orcon and I don't want to pay for an early termination fee for Fibre. 

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1439920 3-Dec-2015 14:27
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Not sure if it costs them per install but yea seems like a smart thing for them to do is perhaps waive the fee and sign you for a new contract rather than piss you off with the early termination fee.





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  Reply # 1439923 3-Dec-2015 14:42
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Just because you didn't read T&C it doesn't mean they don't apply to you. It seems that with UFB you always have to pay the early termination fee according to this page, you have to guess it's because they get charged by someone else because it's clearly not a customer friendly policy. Vodafone terms are a little more customer friendly I think. A quick search couldn't find Spark/2deg terms.




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1439954 3-Dec-2015 15:18
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You do understand when you sign a 12 month contract you are agreeing to consume their services at that address for 12 months? if you break the contract they are well within their rights to charge you the ETF.

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Master Geek
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Orcon

  Reply # 1439957 3-Dec-2015 15:19
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brentee: Hi, 

Why would Orcon charge me for an early termination fee for Fibre if I'll move house? Still within the 12-months contract. Sure it's in the T&C - 99% of the users don't really read that though.

But why would Orcon charge if I just want to move to a different address? 
If I am going to pay for an early termination fee, no way I'm coming to Orcon. But that's not what I wanted. I just want to move to a different house, wants to retain my service with Orcon and I don't want to pay for an early termination fee for Fibre. 


Hi there,

There's a fair bit of work that goes into setting up a UFB connection, so if you're still within contract and decide/need to move you should be prepared for there to be some level of termination fees.

I'm happy to double check if you'd like to PM me with your account info.

Cheers,

Cam



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Wannabe Geek
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  Reply # 1439960 3-Dec-2015 15:23
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Okay now, the thing is - I'll be moving to a new address that has no Fibre.
I certainly have no problem with switching to VDSL temporarily, even if it means 1 year. As long as I won't be paying for the early termination fee. 

Orcon has just said few minutes ago that the early termination fee would still apply. I said why? Orcon said they paid Chorus for the installation. Fine - but I am sticking with Orcon anyway and I will still be paying you with a same amount for the VDSL. 

Long story short, my issue was escalated and I'll wait for their call. Wow, we're like going around the circle for an hour because Orcon can't justify what they are asking from me. Yes it's in the T&C but hey, explain that crap to me. 

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  Reply # 1439967 3-Dec-2015 15:52
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you do realise that there is an install that goes along with VDSL as well, this costs the isp circa $200

and the cost to orcon it distributed over 12 months, as is the cost to install vdsl, so by chopping and changing services orcon are not able to recoup their costs.

its all built into the monthly fee


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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 1439979 3-Dec-2015 16:01
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A UFB install incurs a 12 month term contract for the ISP. If a customer moves and that connection is cancelled then Chorus can charge the ISP the ETF for that connection. For this very reason you'll find a number of ISPs impose a term contact for the connection, not the customer.

At present Chorus are not charging this, but at any point could suddenly to decide to do this.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1440014 3-Dec-2015 17:17
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sbiddle: A UFB install incurs a 12 month term contract for the ISP. If a customer moves and that connection is cancelled then Chorus can charge the ISP the ETF for that connection. For this very reason you'll find a number of ISPs impose a term contact for the connection, not the customer.

At present Chorus are not charging this, but at any point could suddenly to decide to do this.



So chorus have a theoretical fee they could charge. ISPs are protecting themselves by charging an etf for the house, not the customer.

However, since chorus aren't actually charging it, ISPs that successfully charge their customers the etf are actually just making a nice fat profit for doing nothing.

Seems pretty shakey reason for charging an etf right now, since there is no actual loss they are offsetting.

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  Reply # 1440058 3-Dec-2015 18:18
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NonprayingMantis:
sbiddle: A UFB install incurs a 12 month term contract for the ISP. If a customer moves and that connection is cancelled then Chorus can charge the ISP the ETF for that connection. For this very reason you'll find a number of ISPs impose a term contact for the connection, not the customer.

At present Chorus are not charging this, but at any point could suddenly to decide to do this.



So chorus have a theoretical fee they could charge. ISPs are protecting themselves by charging an etf for the house, not the customer.

However, since chorus aren't actually charging it, ISPs that successfully charge their customers the etf are actually just making a nice fat profit for doing nothing.

Seems pretty shakey reason for charging an etf right now, since there is no actual loss they are offsetting.

Some LFCs do actually charge the ETF, so depends on where you are actually.

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  Reply # 1440063 3-Dec-2015 18:29
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NonprayingMantis:
So chorus have a theoretical fee they could charge. ISPs are protecting themselves by charging an etf for the house, not the customer.

However, since chorus aren't actually charging it, ISPs that successfully charge their customers the etf are actually just making a nice fat profit for doing nothing.

Seems pretty shakey reason for charging an etf right now, since there is no actual loss they are offsetting.


I don 't see how this fee has anything to do with it. An ISP builds total costs into the term contract, which in effect this person is breaking.

A contract is a contract, and I don't see how this differs in any way to say taking out a mortgage over say 5 years, deciding to pay it back early and then refusing to pay any penalties for breaking it.


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  Reply # 1440133 3-Dec-2015 20:01
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Or they could make a nice impression and be a little more 'human' by waving the fee in return for signing up for another 12 or 24 month contract.  Brentee hasn't said if they tried pursuing this.  ISP's used to provide free modems in return for contract renewals - I used to arrange this with ISP's on behalf of friends/family to get replacements for their old ADSL1 routers.  Tried it a year ago with Telecom and failed, however.  Funny thing was in this case they promptly changed ISP.

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  Reply # 1440158 3-Dec-2015 20:49
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And of course these issues all arise because margins are so slim. With the race to the bottom it's safe to say from a financial point of view it's probably better to lose a customer than make a loss on them.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1440207 3-Dec-2015 23:12
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sbiddle: A UFB install incurs a 12 month term contract for the ISP. If a customer moves and that connection is cancelled then Chorus can charge the ISP the ETF for that connection. For this very reason you'll find a number of ISPs impose a term contact for the connection, not the customer.

At present Chorus are not charging this, but at any point could suddenly to decide to do this.



We suspected we where going to be charged these fees at my work (Startup ISP) however upon consulting the information package it is not mentioned under any product or service description for NGA Evolve so it appears to have been removed with the introduction of NGA Evolve services, If this is correct no ISP should be charging for a fee that is no longer applied as they pay nothing more than normal service charge + ISP selected install cost designed specific to the providers CSE (No charge is present if a provider does not make a request which incurs a charge)

As for other ISP's I am unfamiliar with process however Chorus have the lions share of connections by far at this point at least from what I have seen with our customer base.

Side note: This is the first mention I have seen at all from anyone geekzone, customer or otherwise indicating that moving address constitutes breach of contract and strikes me as nothing but money grabbing from Orcon.




Perpetually undecided.



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Wannabe Geek
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  Reply # 1440396 4-Dec-2015 11:31
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MadEngineer: Or they could make a nice impression and be a little more 'human' by waving the fee in return for signing up for another 12 or 24 month contract.  Brentee hasn't said if they tried pursuing this.  ISP's used to provide free modems in return for contract renewals - I used to arrange this with ISP's on behalf of friends/family to get replacements for their old ADSL1 routers.  Tried it a year ago with Telecom and failed, however.  Funny thing was in this case they promptly changed ISP.


That's what I suggested to them. The new address has no Fibre and I said - Fine, switch me to VDSL for another contract. But.. don't charge me for ETF (for the Fibre) because I will still be with you anyway. 

Case was escalated, waiting for a call from Orcon. 

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1440437 4-Dec-2015 12:49
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i doubt you'll get that return call.  did you ask for a name and approximate time or date they'd return your call?

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