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BDFL - Memuneh
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  #135891 6-Jun-2008 09:42
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redkea: This site is frequented by geeks. We know and accept that bandwidth is a limited resource. We accept that there are contention ratios of bandwidth to users. We accept that upstream providers can have faults that aren't Orcons problems.


Actually I am disappointed with some of the "geeks" that don't seem to understand how things work in IT. I see Thomas posted his update at almost 3am. But from 10:0-pm people were already complaining:


its 10:18pm guys.



10:22,i'm going off orcon



10:30 and still very very poor intl performance.


This one came one minute after Thomas posted an update with the message "new bandwidth being commisioned now":


I'm losing faith in this company by the second.



10:45pm - That's it. I've had enough! I'm moving to another ISP over the weekend.


Wow... The work finished at 3am, but as early as 10pm the previous night people were complaining already.

It is not simple like "flick a switch and all is done". Things take time.

Very disappointing of you geeks who have shown this behaviour. Give the guys some credit, they are working hard to make sure things work.









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#135892 6-Jun-2008 09:52
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My Skype issues appear to be resolved at this point, which I certainly appreciate. However, I am still getting the same slow performance I have had with Orcon for many months. I lodged a support request with them on this, and after a while, they just stopped responding via e-mail.

My issue is that on many sites that I know to be capable of good transfer speeds, I am lucky if I get over 100KBPS. This would seem very slow given what my router is telling me about how I am connecting.

Data Rate
Stream TypeActual Data Rate
Up Stream983 (Kbps.)
Down Stream17710 (Kbps.)
 
Operation Data
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin11 dB12 dB
Attenuation18 dB20 dB

Defect Indication
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Fast Path FEC Correction00
Interleaved Path FEC Correction00
Fast Path CRC Error7010199
Interleaved Path CRC Error00
Loss of Signal Defect0---
Fast Path HEC Error290
Interleaved Path HEC Error0

I am on the Linwood exchange in Christchurch. I realise that it may be an exchange issue, but surely if that's the case, it is up to the ISP to follow through, rather than simply not entering into further discussion. If I called Chorus, they would tell me to go back to my ISP.

Also on some local sites, such as the RNZ website from which I download podcasts, I am getting much better speeds, suggesting that this may in fact be some sort of ISP issue.

It's the difficulty in being able to engage in meaningful dialogue, and the apparent lack of concern to satisfy a customer paying about $160 a month, that I find disappointing.




Jonathan


 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  #135895 6-Jun-2008 09:58
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Actually I am disappointed with some of the "geeks" that don't seem to understand how things work in IT. I see Thomas posted his update at almost 3am. But from 10:0-pm people were already complaining:


Wow... The work finished at 3am, but as early as 10pm the previous night people were complaining already.
It is not simple like "flick a switch and all is done". Things take time.
Very disappointing of you geeks who have shown this behaviour. Give the guys some credit, they are working hard to make sure things work.


We do appreciate their efforts and we are glad things are looking up, but you are being too one sided now.  The fact is they continued to not deliver on their promises and mislead us on their status page for weeks.  It took way too long to finally get a clear response from them.

It will take awhile before they earn our faith again.  We pay good money for our connections, they are only now providing the service/information that we deserved from day one.

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  #135896 6-Jun-2008 10:01
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The problem is we understand perfectly well how things work in IT. And that is the problem.

When they say it will be fixed this week - they really mean next month.
When they say Tuesday they mean Thursday.
When they say 8:00pm - they mean 10:00pm
When they say 10:00pm - they mean 3:00am.

We have been waiting over a MONTH!

We have been paying them a LOT of money during that month.

Can you name one other industry or shop or retailer or service where your pay ahead of time not to receive service.

ISPs have been getting away with nonsense for far too long. It is unrealistic to expect Orcon's users to shut up and just take it on the chin. Remember it only took them four weeks to update their status page. Right now their status page is still wrong.

BDFL - Memuneh
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#135897 6-Jun-2008 10:02
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pyronical:
Wow... The work finished at 3am, but as early as 10pm the previous night people were complaining already.
It is not simple like "flick a switch and all is done". Things take time.
Very disappointing of you geeks who have shown this behaviour. Give the guys some credit, they are working hard to make sure things work.


We do appreciate their efforts and we are glad things are looking up, but you are being too one sided now.  The fact is they continued to not deliver on their promises and mislead us on their status page for weeks.  It took way too long to finally get a clear response from them.

I am glad things are looking up, but it will take awhile before they earn our faith again.


No, I am not. I don't trust companies by default - any company. But I believe that complaining about something almost instantly is annoying and counter-productive. It just comes across badly. Really.

If the work starts from 10pm (delayed from 8pm) I wouldn't ever expect a result at 10:05pm. It's just being realistic. Then we see the update "all done" at 3am.

So everyone who complained between 10:01pm and 3am can just be listed as whingers with little to no patience?




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  #135901 6-Jun-2008 10:08
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If the work starts from 10pm (delayed from 8pm) I wouldn't ever expect a result at 10:05pm. It's just being realistic. Then we see the update "all done" at 3am.

So everyone who complained between 10:01pm and 3am can just be listed as whingers with little to no patience?


I agree with this, but being in IT myself, unless I am 100% sure the work would be completed at 10pm, I would just say 10am the next day and when it's delivered at 4am, it makes you look good.

I guess not all IT people can be diplomats Wink

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  #135902 6-Jun-2008 10:10
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Well said freitasm.

Fair enough that the issue is discussed, but one or two of you have gone a little too far IMHO.


My expectation when this was posted was that I would wait until tonight to test.  As has already been mentioned, adding capacity isn’t a switch flicking operation.


 
 
 
 


BDFL - Memuneh
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  #135903 6-Jun-2008 10:10
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pyronical: I agree with this, but being in IT myself, unless I am 100% sure the work would be completed at 10pm, I would just say 10am the next day and when it's delivered at 4am, it makes you look good.

I guess not all IT people can be diplomats


I rather have some ongoing status than some spin.

Seriously though I have some stuff coming up soon - I managed to get a time from the CEOs from New Zealand's largest telcos - including Orcon, to answer to questions from Geekzone users.

This is coming next week - keep an eye in my blog and here in the forums. I wonder if we can really get questions good enough to justify the time these people are giving to us, geeks - and the time it took me to get all those CEOs on the table.

Think about our future...




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  #135908 6-Jun-2008 10:25
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Hey guys - we've run into some delays with the upgrade. I'm expecting it'll be complete at around 10 this evening now, instead of 8 as expected.
I'll let everyone know once its done.
cheers
thomas


They claimed it would be 'complete' at 10, not started at 10.


I rather have some ongoing status than some spin.


You and I live in two different worlds.


Seriously though I have some stuff coming up soon - I managed to get a time from the CEOs from New Zealand's largest telcos - including Orcon, to answer to questions from Geekzone users.
This is coming next week - keep an eye in my blog and here in the forums. I wonder if we can really get questions good enough to justify the time these people are giving to us, geeks - and the time it took me to get all those CEOs on the table.
Think about our future...


Should be interesting to hear from them.

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  #135912 6-Jun-2008 10:29
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Well I'd like to ask Scott Bartlett some tough questions, like if the real reason they've canned IPTV...is it due to a severe lack of bandwidth???

Internationally I'm now getting 4700kpbs (downstream) to L.A. on speedtest.net post-bandwidth upgrade and although it's better than the previous sub-2Mbit speeds, keep in mind I am doing this at 10am Friday morning (offpeak), I really hope it stays at 4MBit during peak time (I have my doubts) but only time will tell. It's hardly Next-Generation Internet, something we're all paying Orcon a lot of money for and considering the unbundled connection is using their own gear, separate backhaul and much lower contention, I can get 'Full-Line-Speed Intenational throughput' using our works'  XTRA Telecom Broadband ADSL1 connection, yip 6/7Mbit easily.
Something's not right.

BDFL - Memuneh
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#135914 6-Jun-2008 10:36
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Please save your questions for the appropriate threads - I won't be able to collect anything that is not in the topics, which will be open from next week.




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  #135949 6-Jun-2008 12:22
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Good work Orcon!!

Already I see speed improvements, I get 400-500KB/s on downloading my podcasts!


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  #135964 6-Jun-2008 12:56
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freitasm: Actually I am disappointed with some of the "geeks" that don't seem to understand how things work in IT. I see Thomas posted his update at almost 3am. But from 10:0-pm people were already complaining:


10:45pm - That's it. I've had enough! I'm moving to another ISP over the weekend.


Wow... The work finished at 3am, but as early as 10pm the previous night people were complaining already.

It is not simple like "flick a switch and all is done". Things take time.

Very disappointing of you geeks who have shown this behaviour. Give the guys some credit, they are working hard to make sure things work.



Up until now my only complaint has been the slow downloads. Orcon finally admit there's a problem and say they are going to fix it. The fix was to start at 8pm and be done by 10pm. Why is it that prior to 8pm, not only could I not download anything, but I couldn't even get access to ordinary websites. It obviously wasn't part of the upgrade since that didn't start until 10pm.

I think I'm well within my rights to complain about Orcon. They are quite happy taking my money. It's about time they start providing a decent service. I've worked in IT for 19 years (including governement departments), so know how big companies 'work'. I accept that expecting results one minute after the job started is a bit much, but chances are people were expecting the job to have been finished by then.

BDFL - Memuneh
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  #135966 6-Jun-2008 13:03
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photoman: The fix was to start at 8pm and be done by 10pm. Why is it that prior to 8pm, not only could I not download anything, but I couldn't even get access to ordinary websites. It obviously wasn't part of the upgrade since that didn't start until 10pm.


I see nothing wrong with complaints about a paid service.. But Orcon CTO Thomas came here just to announce they had problems and there was a delay to start the job from 8pm to 10pm.

He posted back at 3am to announce the work was completed - and I've seen peple complaining from the "Go!". Can't people just wait until a job is done?

That's the whole point of my comment.

And yes, I have been in IT for even longer than you and I've seen a lot of migrations and updates - some gone very well, some gone very badly. That's why I can see this is stressing.






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  #135988 6-Jun-2008 14:24
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Hi all,

This will be my last post on this topic.

I've spent the last ten years dealing with virtually every ISP in the country on behalf on my clients. The main issue here is the deceiving communication Orcon have had with their customers.

Because Orcon (and other ISPs) choose not to maintain ACCURATE and UP-TO-DATE, STATUS pages and because they choose not to inform their helpdesk staff, I like countless other IT professionals around New Zealand spend hours diagnosing internet problems at huge expense to discover the fundalmental cause is at the ISP.

All they need to do is tell the truth about the status of their network. The last Orcon help desk person I spoke with suggested the "Marketing" department is in charge of the status page. That certainly figures.

On the brightside, lets just be thankful we haven't been Xtra customers for the last four years!

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