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244 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15

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  Reply # 136184 7-Jun-2008 11:43
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It's been a couple of days now since the supposed bandwidth upgrade.
And unfortunately all of us are still having issues.

Duncan, you are still to respond to my post of a couple of days ago.
I think the wider consensus here seams to be that you are actively using your Layer 7 device rather than actually adding any bandwidth.
I have noticed that you are examining packets for their content and will stop thinks like media and UDP from outside NZ at around 400kbps.
And that's at off-peak times.
For normal watching of YouTube it's probably fine.
But for trying to watch next Monday's WWDC it certainly won't do.

So again. Can you please tell us straight what your rules on shaping traffic on the Layer 7 device are.
It's quite apparent it's enabled for all users at all times.
I know that if I paid loads of money to Juniper (I'm guessing) for the device, I would be actively using it.
So be honest.

160 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 136218 7-Jun-2008 14:29
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Yeah I really wish Orcon were more open and transparent with that Layer 7 filtering, because the more I hear about it, the more I get paranoid about it. I would actually pay extra to not have that switched on.
We can never be quite sure if they are adding bandwidth or tweaking that mysterious box, I guess it saves them millions of dollars so we'll never really know. I always got crazy-good torrent speeds on Xnet.

 
 
 
 


256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 136250 7-Jun-2008 16:57
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Well its 4:45 Saturday Afternoon and my International Download speed is as bad as its ever been this past month. Actually its half the speed I was getting two or three months ago. The problem is not fixed with extra bandwidth on my end atleast. I'll continue to speedtest and try some more gaming over the next couple of days. Whats this layer 7 everyone's talking about? I hope its not like traffic management....Because my Orcon MAX/MAX plan I pay for... strictly says no traffic mangement !!! I am also wondering if Interleaving is still turned off by default at Orcon headquarters?




 

39 posts

Geek


Reply # 136260 7-Jun-2008 17:45
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Speeds were good this morning at around 10am as they often are off-peak. 2500 kb/s to San Fran on Speedtest

5:30pm here Saturday now and a back to the mixed bag speed wise.

5 KB/s downloading ProcessExplorer.zip from Sysinternals
200 KB/s downloading directx9 from Microsoft

San FranMelbourne

C:\Documents and Settings\Matt>tracert www.google.com

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [74.125.19.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  RTA1025W.home [192.168.1.1]
  2    42 ms    41 ms    44 ms  60.234.8.18
  3    39 ms    42 ms     *     ge-0-3-0-200.cr1.nct.orcon.net.nz [60.234.9.1]
  4    45 ms    44 ms    46 ms  ge-2-2-0.gw4.AKL1.asianetcom.net [203.192.166.69
]
  5    43 ms    47 ms    45 ms  gi9-3.gw1.akl1.asianetcom.net [202.147.55.209]
  6   201 ms   208 ms   204 ms  po0-0.gw1.sjc1.asianetcom.net [202.147.50.129]
  7   236 ms   235 ms   235 ms  74.125.49.97
  8   249 ms   236 ms   234 ms  216.239.46.194
  9   201 ms   211 ms   204 ms  209.85.251.94
 10   235 ms   231 ms   236 ms  www.google.com [74.125.19.103]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.yahoo-ht3.akadns.net [209.131.36.158]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  RTA1025W.home [192.168.1.1]
  2    46 ms    46 ms    48 ms  60.234.8.18
  3     *       47 ms    46 ms  ge-0-3-0-200.cr1.nct.orcon.net.nz [60.234.9.1]
  4    47 ms    49 ms    46 ms  ge-2-2-0.gw4.AKL1.asianetcom.net [203.192.166.69
]
  5    42 ms    43 ms    49 ms  gi9-3.gw1.akl1.asianetcom.net [202.147.55.209]
  6   199 ms   202 ms   198 ms  po0-0.gw1.sjc1.asianetcom.net [202.147.50.129]
  7   221 ms   226 ms   225 ms  PAT2.SJC.yahoo.com [206.223.116.16]
  8   204 ms   228 ms   228 ms  ae0-p161.msr1.sp1.yahoo.com [216.115.107.59]
  9   207 ms   209 ms   231 ms  te-9-1.bas-a1.sp1.yahoo.com [209.131.32.23]
 10   236 ms   236 ms   234 ms  www.yahoo.com [209.131.36.158]

Trace complete.


8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 136264 7-Jun-2008 17:56
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Whilst I'm not having such a large issues with the speeds (except to Europe, these are shocking, and have been for longer than the current issues) I'm sick of seeing this when downloading files:



I've been seeing results like this since late March where the speed of a download climbs steadily, then drops off, just to climb and drop off again.  I never ever used to see this, but now I do all the time.  It happened with everything there for a while, of all filetypes, and streaming radio and video content.

Lately streaming video seems to have been improved, but file downloads still do this constantly (HTTP and FTP).  I initally thought it might have been to do with certain servers, then maybe the issues they have had, but now that its happening on everything, it seems more likely that something else is at play (overly aggressive QoS maybe?).  Download speeds from overseas that used to top out at around 800KB/s on my machine, now do this climb/drop-off pattern and struggle to hit 200KB/s.

I'm not impressed what-so-ever and am interested in hearing some answers also.

244 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15

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  Reply # 136273 7-Jun-2008 18:50
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BazNZ.

It is traffic management.
Unfortunately Orcon are now effectively shaping every connections to manage their outgoing bandwidth.
This whole story about international bandwidth is not new.
I have spent countless hours on the phone to corporate support some time in March about international speeds.
Their answer was: We're waiting for extra bandwidth.
Now it's apparently the same.
Having researched Orcon's recent purchases of equipment from Juniper I'm not surprised things are going bad.
I think a lot of what's going on is a mixture of high number of customers, bandwidth limitations and lack of experience in setting up the new equipment (as in miss-configuration).
And unfortunately we're paying for it.
I strongly believe ALL Orcon's DSL connections (whether LLU, non-LLU, residential or business) are being shaped (managed) via the Layer 7 box.
Again, no commercial enterprise would pay loads of money for a piece of equipment and use it on a small, lowest-paying set of customers.
It's not about user experience anymore, it's about how to best manage international bandwidth, which I suspect leaves quite a void in their wallet (even bigger thanks to demanding users like us).

How else can you explain that about 3 weeks ago my speed to LA on ping of 401ms was 5911kbps (at 7PM), now on the same ping of 401ms it's 3081kbps (at 11AM).
More bandwidth you say?????
Don't think so.

D

160 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 136275 7-Jun-2008 19:04
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my question is, if Orcon now have purchased extra bandwidth and have an adequate amount, why do they still need the Layer 7 thing?
I've noticed with an Orcon connection your download speed never bursts fast then gradually slows down, it starts off really slow and then creeps up from there...surely this must mean they are inspecting it? I don't notice it so much as I'm mostly using a download manager

Speeds are looking better, will test again, Monday night 9pm for maximum peak-timeness

National
using http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/module-Speedtest.phtml

Download Speed: 14216 kbps (1777 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 871 kbps (108.9 KB/sec transfer rate)

International
using http://speedtest.net


31 posts

Geek


  Reply # 136276 7-Jun-2008 19:04
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I'm trying to browse the website for Aion (http://eu.aiononline.com/en) that is quite flash intensive and is based in Europe. It is painfully slow, and this is why:



Phonecalls shall be made to other ISPs on Monday. At least I can be grateful that I can keep my Orcon email addresses and that I'm not on a contract.

8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 136288 7-Jun-2008 19:38
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Actually, I've just realised...

Their layer 7 device must have gone in at the same time I started having problems with rsync timeouts.

rsync error: timeout in data send/receive (code 30) at io.c(165) [receiver=2.6.9]
rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]
rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(458) [receiver=2.6.9]
rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]
rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(458) [receiver=2.6.9]
rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]
rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(458) [receiver=2.6.9]
rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (0 bytes received so far) [receiver]
rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(458) [receiver=2.6.9]


I can do it at different times of the day occasionally it works, but most often I get similar results.  It has worked fine for years, now since the 3rd, I've had these errors.

84 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 3


Reply # 136296 7-Jun-2008 20:45
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Well 8.30 and i'm having the exact same issues as i was before the upgrade with Vent and AoC. I waited for the upgrade and it has made no difference, my connection is totally unusable after 8pm till around 11pm for what I got it for.

Guess it's time to try vodafones new red plan that got released.

462 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Subscriber

Reply # 136298 7-Jun-2008 20:56
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I'd like to suggest that we contact some technology journalists and turn up the heat via the media on this issue. In fact, if the ISP in question had been Xtra, the media would have been all over this by now.

We've waited for a resolution for a good period, I think most of us have been very reasonable. We're getting substandard performance, and all questions about compensation have been ignored. To their credit, at least Telecom fessed up and did offer compensation over the bubble fiasco. It's time to hold Orcon's feet to the fire on this.by warning potential custoemrs of what to expect.




Jonathan Mosen

 

Mosen Consulting, for advice on web and app accessibility

 

http://mosen.org

482 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 136344 8-Jun-2008 01:45

jmosen: I'd like to suggest that we contact some technology journalists and turn up the heat via the media on this issue. In fact, if the ISP in question had been Xtra, the media would have been all over this by now.

We've waited for a resolution for a good period, I think most of us have been very reasonable. We're getting substandard performance, and all questions about compensation have been ignored. To their credit, at least Telecom fessed up and did offer compensation over the bubble fiasco. It's time to hold Orcon's feet to the fire on this.by warning potential custoemrs of what to expect.

Im with you there, sounds like a great idea!
Lets hope it goes somewhere...

256 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 136400 8-Jun-2008 11:53
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Poor performance is extremely noticeable when gaming still. It makes it almost impossible to play when your internet connection bandwidth is hanging, pausing then bursting. I'm getting alot of lag, warping and delay still when gaming which is very frustrating. Orcon have done something these past 2 months or so and have wrecked what they once had...good consistent service! I am also now looking at alternatives. Vodafone is only ihug in disguise after buying that company..aren't they? I did hear though their adsl2 is being set up very quickly in cities like Hamilton and Tauranga etc...not just Auckland. I'm on the search now for a good gaming ISP who also have homeline/national/international calling plans etc...are there any?.




 

84 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 136420 8-Jun-2008 13:08
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Awesome Job Orcon, 1PM in the afternoon and it's already starting.

482 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 136425 8-Jun-2008 13:34

Here is my speed test history, as you can see they are all fairly ok, but they all the time change, never stays at max (there are only 3 time when it was going at max "4611")

My speeds aren't as bad as some people, but they aren't what they used to be Cry
So far as I can remember, my speeds all went down, that day when Orcon said they where "upgrading" some of there equipment, this was about a month ago when they done that, what ever they done then has made my speed slow down.



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