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399 posts

Ultimate Geek

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# 253223 1-Aug-2019 16:21
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My setup is that I have an Orcon modem (NF18ACV) which connects to the ONT.  Behind my modem sits an Orbi router connected to a LAN port on the Orcon modem.  All devices were connected to the Orbi.  On the Orcon Modem, Wi-Fi was disabled.  I have a landline.

 

Every 3 or 4 days, I loose the ability to connect to the Internet.  The ONT shows 2 green and 1 orange light on solid (usually they are all flashing on and off constantly).  The Orcon modem shows all lights on as usual except the phone light - that is off and there is no dial tone.  The Orbi reports no internet connection with a purple glow light.

 

When I first reported the problem to Orcon they looked at the router and asked why the Wi-Fi was disabled. When I told them about the Orbi they suggested the problem was caused by the Orbi loosing its connection to the Orcon modem.  At this point I had not noticed the landline status.  The solution is to power-cycle the Orcon modem.  I therefore enabled the Orcon router Wi-Fi but hid the SSIDs.

 

When the problem happened the next time I noticed the landline was down and tried to connect to one of the Orcon router SSIDs.  With them being hidden could not see the status visually from my laptop and no connection was possible.  I called Orcon and they again insisted the Orbi is the probable cause.  Their requirement is that I disconnect the Orbi completely and report the problem if it occurs again.  This is simply not acceptable to me.  There were many good reasons that I bought the Orbi and I refuse to do without it.  As a compromise I have 'un-hidden' the SSIDs for the Orcon modem and moved my phone to it so there is at least one device connected.  I know this does not meet the Orcon requirement but if that phone is not operable when the problem occurs then it indicates a problem with the modem, not the Orbi.  I do not understand what the Orbi could do to the Orcon router to induce a complete failure but I acknowledge the possibilityas a theory.

 

When the problem happens again I will check the landline status and I will check if the phone connected to the Orcon modem Wi-Fi has any usable service.  I am expecting that the landline will indeed be down and there will be no data available through the Orcon modem Wi-Fi.  To me this would conclusively prove that the Orbi is not the cause of the problem - that the problem is either with the ONT or the Orcon modem.  I would appreciate any assistance in dealing with the expected response from Orcon blaming the Orbi.

 

Background info:

 

I have had the Orbi now for some years, originally connected to an NF4V that predated the NF18ACV.  When I originally installed the NF18ACV I was an ADSL user.  Fibre was installed last March and the problem started to occur some time after the Fibre upgrade was done.  I dont have log records that would be needed to tie the start of this problem to the Fibre upgrade.

 

I have a network printer/scanner connected to the Orbi which is used daily to scan and store documents on our various devices.  Devices connected to the Orcon modem Wi-Fi cannot 'see' devices connected to the Orbi.  The quality of the Wi-Fi network on the Orcon modem is not good enough for me to move all devices to the Orcon modem and turn off the Orbi.  I don't have any option to use wired (LAN) connections except as a temporary measure.





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Wannabe Geek

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  # 2287300 1-Aug-2019 17:12
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You should be able to just use Orbi directly as it supports VLAN

 

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/NetgearISPSettings#vodafoneorbi




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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2287308 1-Aug-2019 17:33
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lasc:

 

You should be able to just use Orbi directly as it supports VLAN

 

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/NetgearISPSettings#vodafoneorbi

 

 

Thanks for your response, but the Orbi does not support a landline connection.





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  # 2287315 1-Aug-2019 17:46
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You have an unusual setup; the Orcon-provided device is being used as a router (not a modem), and you then have a second router, presumably performing double NAT, behind it.  The two devices are also presumably competing for WiFi spectrum.

 

I would either ditch the Orcon device and configure your Orbi properly to be the router, or configure the Orbi purely as a Wifi access point, which will avoid double NAT (and the isolation between networks that you have experienced).

 

If the Orbi can't provide your landline, you could either use the Orcon device just for this, or use a separate ATA


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  # 2287323 1-Aug-2019 18:01
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Remove the orbi and play the game until the fault is diagnosed.

Mr Snotty
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  # 2287325 1-Aug-2019 18:08
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To be perfectly honest I agree with Orcon here. Test without the Orbi powered on to see if the fault reoccurs. There is no point complaining about it.

 

Regarding the landline - you can normally set up the Orcon router to be behind the Orbi just for phone (IIRC disable WiFi, configure the WAN to be DHCP w/out any VLAN and plug this into the Orbi's LAN port). But really, your setup is not ideal currently.







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  # 2287336 1-Aug-2019 18:42
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shk292:

 

You have an unusual setup; the Orcon-provided device is being used as a router (not a modem), and you then have a second router, presumably performing double NAT, behind it.  The two devices are also presumably competing for WiFi spectrum.

 

 

Thanks for your response.

 

The Orbi is purely an AP - intended to replace the Wi-Fi capability of the Orcon device.  Originally the Orcon device Wi-Fi was completely disabled, now it is used to prove that when the problem occurs there is no data service though the Orcon device through both data paths (LAN and Wi-Fi) it provides.

 

shk292:

 

I would either ditch the Orcon device and configure your Orbi properly to be the router, or configure the Orbi purely as a Wifi access point, which will avoid double NAT (and the isolation between networks that you have experienced).

 

If the Orbi can't provide your landline, you could either use the Orcon device just for this, or use a separate ATA

 

 

The Orcon device is bundled with my plan and its use is a key part of the Orcon support I need.  If I drop the Orcon device then I loose the support Orcon provides for it and I am not that self-sufficient.

 

 

 

 





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OldGeek.




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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2287349 1-Aug-2019 19:11
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The problem has just occurred again.  This time I had my cellphone connected to the Orcon device Wi-Fi.  The Wi-Fi connection held up (ie the phone was not using 4G data) but there was no internet data available.  So in this respect, all devices had no Internet data availability regardless of whether they were connected to the Orby or Orcon device.





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  # 2287351 1-Aug-2019 19:14
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michaelmurfy:

 

To be perfectly honest I agree with Orcon here. Test without the Orbi powered on to see if the fault reoccurs. There is no point complaining about it.

 

Regarding the landline - you can normally set up the Orcon router to be behind the Orbi just for phone (IIRC disable WiFi, configure the WAN to be DHCP w/out any VLAN and plug this into the Orbi's LAN port). But really, your setup is not ideal currently.

 

 

OK - I will try moving all my devices to the Orcon device and then turning the Orbi off.  I will probably have to last a week though.





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OldGeek.




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  # 2287363 1-Aug-2019 19:56
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I think I found the cause of the problem - the Orbi mode setting was 'Router', not 'AP'.

 

I am certain that when I originally configured this device out-of-the-box years ago I chose the AP setting.  However since then the NF4V was replaced by the NF18ACV and, seperately, ADSL to Fibre and at some point this setting changed.

 

Thanks for all the responses and I will consider the suggestion that I put the Orbi between the ONT and the Orcon router.





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OldGeek.


'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 2287386 1-Aug-2019 20:56
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Although it might seem like a blame the orbi sort of situation, this isnt really the goal to switching back to the provided modem setup.

 

 

 

The goal is, to swap to a known working configuration in order to limit variables. 

 

Alternative is, they could throw replacements at you and still not solve the actual issue at hand... I'm sure no provider is a fan of that option though.

 

 

 

 





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2290136 5-Aug-2019 11:56
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Does the NF18ACV not have some kind of log area where you could see what kind of errors it is experiencing when it tries to reconnect? Or is it claiming to have a working connection to the internet while all downstream devices fail? If so, try and find an onboard ping/traceroute function in the NF18ACV control panel, to see if it actually does have a connection.

 

 

 

I agree that the Orbi doing double NAT is a serious problem, but I don't understand why it would work fine for a week and then fail, taking down the NF18ACV Wifi along with it. I think there's something else going on here.




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  # 2290141 5-Aug-2019 12:15
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@ripdog while I share your viewpoint, I also accept as valid the Orcon viewpoint that they do not support foreign devices such as the Orbi.  I always intended that the Orbi function as a Wi-Fi router replacement, as a LAN-connected device behind the Orcon device.  When the Orbi was configured as a router this was not the case.

 

I am firmly of the belief that part of the service I pay for is the support from Orcon for their router, and as I have only the most basic networking expertise I value that support.  Put simply, if my Internet connection goes down I rely on Orcon to fix it.





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OldGeek.


439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2290400 5-Aug-2019 18:01
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I can understand the RSP wanting you to only connect their device to test if the fault reoccurs because I've come across SO MANY instances of faults where it's been other equipment causing the entire issue




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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2293523 10-Aug-2019 14:16
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snnet:

 

I can understand the RSP wanting you to only connect their device to test if the fault reoccurs because I've come across SO MANY instances of faults where it's been other equipment causing the entire issue

 

 

I still don't understand how anything connected to the Orcon device over LAN (or Wi-Fi for that matter) can bring down the Orcon device.

 

The Orbi is an AP now, and provides a quality of Wi-Fi connection that the Orcon device does not.





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OldGeek.




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Ultimate Geek

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  # 2293540 10-Aug-2019 14:29
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The problem has occurred again several times but today I got the opportunity to investigate a little further before the Orcon device was power-cycled.

 

When the problem occurred the lights on the Orcon device (including the Internet) were all on as usual.  The Orcon device SSID was visible but any attempt to connect failed.  I connected through a LAN port on a laptop with no success.  So there was no way to get at the Orcon devices config pages.  The Orbi device (base station) also could not be accessed because there is no IP address to use - the connection goes through orbilogon.com and which requires internet data.

 

I tried power-cycling the ONT but that had no effect.  So again restoring service revolves around power-cycling the Orcon device.

 

There was one thing I had forgotten - the Sam-knows box.  This box sits between the Orcon device and the Orbi so does not materially affect the fact that the Orcon device fails.  I have taken this device down as I dont depend on it for service.





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OldGeek.


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