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108 posts

Master Geek


Topic # 25794 1-Sep-2008 23:36
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Hi,

I live in central Auckland and am currently subscribed to Vodafone broadband which is due to expire very soon so I'm looking around to see what other deals are on offer.
I have entered my address on the vodafone site to see if I qualify for the redzone services (unbundled adsl) and it says that I am in the redzone but unfortunately cannot take advantage of their new unbundled services.
When I enter my phone number on the Orcon website to see if I qualify for their unbundled adsl it says I do qualify.

Am I right to assume that both Orcon and Vodafone would be using the same exchange/lines to my house so either Orcon or Vodafone are wrong with my results, OR, are they completely independant of one another and Orcon has unbundled to my address (or street) but Vodafone has not?

I hope this makes sense to those that can help answer my question :)

Regards,
Steve.

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Infrastructure Geek
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  Reply # 161433 2-Sep-2008 01:30
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orcon and vodafone (ex ihug) are both putting their own (seperate) equipment into the telecom exchanges.  while they will both have equipment in some exchanges, they wont necessarily have the same list of exchanges "unbundled" therefore its quite possible that you could get orcon, but not vodafone (or vice versa)




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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 161450 2-Sep-2008 08:43

Also we're not migrating customers to the red network who are in zone but on an exchange that is being cabinetised. Not sure what Orcon's policy is regarding this but there's not much point for us to move you to LLU equipment and then move you back to wholesale a short time later.

That could explain the difference.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


55 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 161489 2-Sep-2008 11:17
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PaulBrislen: Also we're not migrating customers to the red network who are in zone but on an exchange that is being cabinetised. Not sure what Orcon's policy is regarding this but there's not much point for us to move you to LLU equipment and then move you back to wholesale a short time later.

That could explain the difference.


Not forgetting the huge delays in migrating people over, so you're really signing up to the wholesale server, with a chance of being migrated to the red network sometime in the future.



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Master Geek


Reply # 161490 2-Sep-2008 11:27
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Hi, thanks for the replies but can you please explain what you mean cabinetised?
Are you saying that I might get an unbundled service with Orcon now but it wont be that way for ever?

Steve.

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  Reply # 161495 2-Sep-2008 11:38

As fast as we put equipment in the Telecom exchanges, Telecom is moving away from the exchanges and putting equipment in the cabinets on the street.

Nobody has access to the cabinets yet because the Commerce Commission has not yet established the rules for such things. This is called "sub-loop unbundling" and is still a work in progress.

So you might get moved to LLU equipment and then find the exchange is discontinued.

Currently there's a move afoot to get dual feed services for a set period of time - so Telecom will continue working with ith the exchanges even after the exchange has been fully cabinetised.

There are delays in moving customers from wholesale to LLU for all LLU parties because Telecom engineers can only move (I think) 50 lines per exchange per day. We're keen to migrate thousands of customers a day - something has to give and unfortunately it's the time frame for moving customers.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz




108 posts

Master Geek


Reply # 161499 2-Sep-2008 11:49
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Thanks Paul.
It doesn't seem very ethical then that Orcon are trying to sell me on joining them for unbundled adsl when they cannot guarantee it will be that way forever, if the exchange gets shut down. If I sign up for adsl2+ I want it to stay that way not be downgraded later if the exchange is stopped. Seems like they're cheating the consumer here or am I still missing a point?

So with Vodafone (who I'm currently with) I am in their redzone but they just have not gotten around to unbundling the exchange that I use yet?

Cheers,
Steve.

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  Reply # 161510 2-Sep-2008 12:34
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SteveFari: Thanks Paul.
It doesn't seem very ethical then that Orcon are trying to sell me on joining them for unbundled adsl when they cannot guarantee it will be that way forever, if the exchange gets shut down. If I sign up for adsl2+ I want it to stay that way not be downgraded later if the exchange is stopped. Seems like they're cheating the consumer here or am I still missing a point?

I wouldn't put it like that.  Orcon has no contract term, so there's no disadvantage (IMO) in trying Orcon's unbundled product.  If it's bad, change to another ISP with no penalty, unlike other ISPs who try and lock you in.  I say make hay while the sun shines, i.e. change to Orcon and if it's bad, no biggie, move on.  If it's good, great.  Eventually your connection may be shifted out to a cabinet and you can reevaluate your options then.  Likely, the outlook will be better at that stage and there'll be no impediment to you moving.  I wouldn't hang around just waiting for the cabinetisation.

Note, Orcon has had a bit of a bad rap lately, but I haven't had any major problems with them and I've found their customer service to be fine on the few times I've needed to ring them.



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Master Geek


Reply # 161523 2-Sep-2008 12:58
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Very valid points!
I do like the no contract term. There's nothing a consumer hates more than having to sign up for 12-24 months and then pay a penalty for leaving early. We can't help the NZ market being small but no fixed term is the way forward for sure.
I will give Orcon a try once my year is up with Vodafone in 1 months time.

Thanks to all that have replied.

Steve.

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  Reply # 161524 2-Sep-2008 13:03
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SteveFari: There's nothing a consumer hates more than having to sign up for 12-24 months and then pay a penalty for leaving early.

Especially when the ISP reserves the right to change the rules when they feel like it!



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Master Geek


Reply # 161525 2-Sep-2008 13:05
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Exactly!
We're lambs to the slaughter :)

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Spark

Reply # 161577 2-Sep-2008 15:42
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PaulBrislen: As fast as we put equipment in the Telecom exchanges, Telecom is moving away from the exchanges and putting equipment in the cabinets on the street.


Hi Paul

Can I just ask one favour, it's not just you but a few people around here. Can we please at least try to refer to companies using their correct name, i.e. there is a difference between Chorus, Telecom Wholesale and Telecom Retail. It is not Telecom, but Chorus (yes a Telecom business, but operationally separate to Telecom Retail and Wholesale thanks to Government legislation) that is advocating cabinetisation.


I’m not trying to be picky, but just ensuring we are all on the same wave length and any discussion has a level of integrity that is acceptable to all.


Cheers

nzbnw








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  Reply # 161591 2-Sep-2008 16:05

No worries... I was trying to stave off the inevitable "What's Chorus? Did Telecom sell the network??" comments but you're quite right.

Cheers

Paul




Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz


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  Reply # 161592 2-Sep-2008 16:09
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PaulBrislen: No worries... I was trying to stave off the inevitable "What's Chorus? Did Telecom sell the network??" comments but you're quite right.

Cheers

Paul


Thanks. Yes undoubtly someone will ask "What's Chorus", sigh. Not everyone can be Telco geeks through Smile!

nbnw








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