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1 post

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 171446 16-Oct-2008 10:26
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I spoke to Orcon yesterday and they said that they DO NOT have BANDWITH THROTTLING but they DO have TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT.
So the honeymoon is long over. The NNTP 2MB download speeds i used to get are now down to 256KB. Orcon connections are becoming absolute rubbish. International traffic is a disaster.

The new Telecom plans sound good. Costs around the same as the Gold plan, same calling deals etc etc. The telecom download speeds have increased amazingly. It may be a maximum of close to 9MB consistantly, but the 9MB is on international traffic aswell. I am right now on a Telecom connection and I just tried LA, Sydney, 9MB, London 6MB.
At home, although i get a local connection speed at about 13MB  on Orcon i tried LA, 3.2MB, Sydney 5.4MB, London 2.8MB. When I originally got the connection my speeds were about 19MB, but those were the dream days!

Orcon, Whats happening? This is rather disappointing.

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 171514 16-Oct-2008 13:30
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Yup orcon is now totally rubbish these days. Buffering in youtube. P2P not going at all because it is so de-prioritised.

upload faster than downloads for speedtest internationally. national speedtest is just fine.

GG orcon

whats happening? they ran out of international bandwith once again coz they dont want to spend the money

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 171518 16-Oct-2008 13:33
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newbiejam: Yup orcon is now totally rubbish these days. Buffering in youtube. P2P not going at all because it is so de-prioritised.

upload faster than downloads for speedtest internationally. national speedtest is just fine.

GG orcon

whats happening? they ran out of international bandwith once again coz they dont want to spend the money


I think AsiaNetCom (Orcons International upstream provider) are the problem here to be honest. I've always had problems with them, even back in the Quicksilver days of unlimited 2mbit nat.

Compared with Telecoms Global Gateway they're absolute arse. GGIS is easily the best upstream provider in NZ in comparison.




Please note: Any posts, comments, or contributions in this forum are posted by me as an individual acting in my own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of any company I work for, clients I've consulted for or anyone else.

1828 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 171974 18-Oct-2008 16:58
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Yup i'd agree with that asianet is absolute arse pings within nz are great untill they get to asianets servers then poof 200ms err WTF i think orcon realy need to rethink who they use and not just the cost factor either we pay for speeds we dont or cant get although i've never had a torrent stop or refuse to connect i do however see a speed limit imposed from about midight till about 9am i can get 2 to 3 hundred kilobytes persec D/l speeds but after that it slows to 25~30KBps as for youtube forget it it buffers so often i cant watch more than 10secs at a time

Pinging youtube.l.google.com [208.117.236.75] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 208.117.236.75: bytes=32 time=181ms TTL=244
Reply from 208.117.236.75: bytes=32 time=182ms TTL=244
Reply from 208.117.236.75: bytes=32 time=182ms TTL=244
Reply from 208.117.236.75: bytes=32 time=182ms TTL=244

Ping statistics for 208.117.236.75:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 181ms, Maximum = 182ms, Average = 181ms

and thats at 4:56pm

Pinging www.orcon.net.nz [60.234.1.8] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 60.234.1.8: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=60
Reply from 60.234.1.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=60
Reply from 60.234.1.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=60
Reply from 60.234.1.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=60

Ping statistics for 60.234.1.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 23ms


268 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 171984 18-Oct-2008 17:36
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180ms to get from NZ to USA and back seems pretty good to me. The speed of light in fibre in about 200,000km/s. Round trip to USA and back is about 20,000km, so that's 100ms just for the signal to do a roundtrip across the Pacific. Throw in the time it takes to move to and from the computers at either end, and some milliseconds for every router in between, and you start getting fairly close to that 180ms.

---JvdL---

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 171995 18-Oct-2008 19:43
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Agree, 180ms-250ms is normal for pings to the US.  I think your expectation of a ping lower than 180ms is pretty unrealistic given the distance involved.

44 posts

Geek


  Reply # 172023 18-Oct-2008 23:00
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{rant}

I've been with Orcon for a long time now, joined up when they had a 128kbps flat rate plan that I used to hammer.

When they were forced to drop this plan 'cause a *lot* of heavy users were on it and were making too good use of their bandwith they put us all to a 256k flat rate plan with 40gb caps.  40gb for the money I pay is reasonable - there may be cheaper plans out there, but Orcon (as said earlier) have been a good ISP as long as you don't need to call their residential support phone line, so why change?

They are screwed outside of Auckland in that we their customers *HAVE* to connect via Telecom dslams - the bandwidth we use is paid for by Orcon to Telecom - this is why 90% of the ISP's can't really offer decent caps for decent money.  Unlike Korea and certain places in the States where you can get fullspeed cable/DSL with no data cap (unless you go over a terrabyte in a month) that'll never happen in NZ until the ISP's can get their gear into Telecom cabinets, and get their own cables from the cabinets back to their own datacentres.

Compounding the issue is always the contention ratio of the cabinet that we're plugged into - I might not be the only heavy user in my cabinet - and if there's only a 2mb backhaul to the nearest exchange that's only ~200KB/s to share amongst ALL users of the cabinet. (Considering I know my neighbour only watches TV that he's downloaded first I know our DSLAM is heavily utilised).

Then on top of that is the international bandwidth Orcon has to access - NZ is at the arse end of the world with limited options to get out of the country with. How are they expected to be able to give comparable speeds against other ISP's who either own or are shareholders in the main damn international links?

If you pick your times to get your torrents going, and be prepared to leave them running, Orcon's bandwidth is pretty good overall.  At peak times they do manage P2P traffic, and yes it can be sluggish.  However, leave things running for a few days and then look at the peaks in your download speeds and you'll see plenty of times where it hits full capacity.

I downloaded the WinServer 2008 hypervisor when someone mentioned it in their blog on Geekzone and was pleasently surprised to see it come down at 300KB's for most of the download.  It's a 959MB ISO and came down via HTTP.  I also recently downloaded the  SME Server 7.3 ISO via Azureus during an afternoon (peak time) and it started slowly as all torrents do, but got to +200KB/s average by the time it finished.  Not bad for a hick town DSLAM (Lyttelton) that's heavily used.

{/rant}

{rant on slightly different tangent}

As it's election year the different parties are bleating on about 'faster broadband' and how it'll 'improve many facets of people's lives'.  Bollocks.  What we really need are much bigger caps (100+ GB/month) for decent money (~$30 - $50 ish) - people can handle their favourite whatever taking a while to download as long as it's not going to cost them anything more. Then they can download something else afterwards.  The difference in a 4mb iTunes purchase at 2meg/s vs a 4mb one at 24meg/s isn't really important when Joe User's not paying attention to his computer anyway. However the extra $10 when he goes from 39.997GB to 40.001 GB is important to him.
If the next government really wants to do something useful about broadband, they should find ways of getting both national and international data to the ISP's at far better rates than they currently have to pay for. Then said ISP's will be able to pass those savings on to us, Joe User et all, by upping our caps for the same spend.

{/rant again}

My $.02 worth.

206 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 172040 19-Oct-2008 09:54
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I'm not going to respond to all your post, however I will mention the following

nzsouthernman: They are screwed outside of Auckland in that we their customers *HAVE* to connect via Telecom dslams - the bandwidth we use is paid for by Orcon to Telecom - this is why 90% of the ISP's can't really offer decent caps for decent money.  Unlike Korea and certain places in the States where you can get fullspeed cable/DSL with no data cap (unless you go over a terrabyte in a month) that'll never happen in NZ until the ISP's can get their gear into Telecom cabinets, and get their own cables from the cabinets back to their own datacentres.


Telecom are rolling out their own cabinets with ADSL2+ in them in the near future (1-2 years for most people). Orcon and Vodafone HAVE already installed their own gear in Telecom exchanges and cabinets, and the only thing limiting any other company doing it is space in those building, as well as the money factor. This is what the seperation of Telecom has been about lately.

nzsouthernman: Compounding the issue is always the contention ratio of the cabinet that we're plugged into - I might not be the only heavy user in my cabinet - and if there's only a 2mb backhaul to the nearest exchange that's only ~200KB/s to share amongst ALL users of the cabinet. (Considering I know my neighbour only watches TV that he's downloaded first I know our DSLAM is heavily utilised).


2mbit backhauls are only applicable if you're on a Conklin as opposed to wired to a DSLAM. Most commonly other DSLAMS are connected to STM1s

nzsouthernman: Then on top of that is the international bandwidth Orcon has to access - NZ is at the arse end of the world with limited options to get out of the country with. How are they expected to be able to give comparable speeds against other ISP's who either own or are shareholders in the main damn international links?


There are several upstream providers for NZ, not all of which are crap. It depends on how MUCH bandwidth your ISP buys from them, and how it distributes that bandwidth they do have between their customers. Orcon could purchase double their current capacity and most likely make a lot of people happy, however obviously money is a HUGE factor there and their current cash is no doubt going into the installation of their own equipment into cabinets before anyone else can. That's why their international performance is suffering, as there is most likely (and this is only an assumption) very little time or effort put into that factor.




Please note: Any posts, comments, or contributions in this forum are posted by me as an individual acting in my own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of any company I work for, clients I've consulted for or anyone else.

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 172050 19-Oct-2008 11:19
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yup agreed about the money spent on installing their equipments.


good for aucklanders. As for south islander like me (dunedin), best to stay away from orcon until they have installed their equipments to most exchanges.




as for time when orcon looks at dunedin - in a million years

22nd of the month coming up, so long orcon.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 172511 21-Oct-2008 13:18
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No if you live in Auckland and are some distance from the exchange I would recommend you do not sign up with Vodafone or Orcon at the current time.

Sub loop un-bundling has not been sorted out yet which means Orcon and Vodafone can't install equipment in the cabinets (only the exchanges) which means you're stuck with a crappy sync.  If your area gets cabinet'd you won't benefit from it unlike people on telecom or any ISP offering DSL via Telecom UBA/UBS.

6 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 175453 3-Nov-2008 14:41
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I wish all the people using bit torrent a fond adeau.

I know that you will be chasing that very difficult beast which is high download speeds at very cheap prices. Your own satisfaction with no regard top others using teh service.

I for one will not miss you at all. I am guessing that Orcon will not miss you as well as you really brass me and others like me off. Your activity chews up bandwidth and you have the know how to get it whereas I do not and have to put up with the limited download speeds. With you here, I would consider leaving to go to another provider. With you gone, I will stay. Let me know where you land so i can avoid that ISP which you will rip apart.

Once you have gone, I will be able to watch you tube without it having to buffer. I will get the service that I pay for.

So. Please go away and take a couple of your bit torrent friends with you. I have not sympathy for you.

Regards

Neil

206 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 175457 3-Nov-2008 14:53
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nils11: I wish all the people using bit torrent a fond adeau.

I know that you will be chasing that very difficult beast which is high download speeds at very cheap prices. Your own satisfaction with no regard top others using teh service.

I for one will not miss you at all. I am guessing that Orcon will not miss you as well as you really brass me and others like me off. Your activity chews up bandwidth and you have the know how to get it whereas I do not and have to put up with the limited download speeds. With you here, I would consider leaving to go to another provider. With you gone, I will stay. Let me know where you land so i can avoid that ISP which you will rip apart.

Once you have gone, I will be able to watch you tube without it having to buffer. I will get the service that I pay for.

So. Please go away and take a couple of your bit torrent friends with you. I have not sympathy for you.

Regards

Neil






Please note: Any posts, comments, or contributions in this forum are posted by me as an individual acting in my own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of any company I work for, clients I've consulted for or anyone else.

63 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 175463 3-Nov-2008 15:02
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nils11: I wish all the people using bit torrent a fond adeau.

I know that you will be chasing that very difficult beast which is high download speeds at very cheap prices. Your own satisfaction with no regard top others using teh service.

I for one will not miss you at all. I am guessing that Orcon will not miss you as well as you really brass me and others like me off. Your activity chews up bandwidth and you have the know how to get it whereas I do not and have to put up with the limited download speeds. With you here, I would consider leaving to go to another provider. With you gone, I will stay. Let me know where you land so i can avoid that ISP which you will rip apart.

Once you have gone, I will be able to watch you tube without it having to buffer. I will get the service that I pay for.

So. Please go away and take a couple of your bit torrent friends with you. I have not sympathy for you.

Regards

Neil


Harden up

If you want dedicated fast internet, you need to pay top $$$ for it, If you want to be put in the pool of other peoples usage.. then your in the right place.

go have a cry elsewhere, you wont find sympathy here.

44 posts

Geek


  Reply # 175516 3-Nov-2008 19:03
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Harden up

If you want dedicated fast internet, you need to pay top $$$ for it, If you want to be put in the pool of other peoples usage.. then your in the right place.

go have a cry elsewhere, you wont find sympathy here.


Stunning.  Well put.  What more needs to be said? Aside from 'go back to dial-up you wuss'.



41 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1


Reply # 175529 3-Nov-2008 20:11
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nils11: I wish all the people using bit torrent a fond adeau.

I know that you will be chasing that very difficult beast which is high download speeds at very cheap prices. Your own satisfaction with no regard top others using teh service.

I for one will not miss you at all. I am guessing that Orcon will not miss you as well as you really brass me and others like me off. Your activity chews up bandwidth and you have the know how to get it whereas I do not and have to put up with the limited download speeds. With you here, I would consider leaving to go to another provider. With you gone, I will stay. Let me know where you land so i can avoid that ISP which you will rip apart.

Once you have gone, I will be able to watch you tube without it having to buffer. I will get the service that I pay for.

So. Please go away and take a couple of your bit torrent friends with you. I have not sympathy for you.

Regards

Neil

What a load of crap.
I'm sick of users like YOU, who use up all my precious bit-torrent bandwidth with mindless youtube DRIVEL.  
Once you have gone, I will finally be able to download Linux distros without having to wait days to do it. I will get the service that I pay for.
So. Please go away and take your youtube friends with you. I have not sympathy for you.




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