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Topic # 29541 11-Jan-2009 00:35
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Back in April I connected up to Orcon's LLU ADSL 2+ network.  Life was dandy with me receiving wonderful 7-10MBit downstream connections.  I couldn't have been happier.  (See my posts at below link)

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=82&topicid=21049

Then while I was away on holiday in Europe in October, something rather odd happened. I returned to find my connect speeds were 2.8MBits.  How very odd.

My router was playing up at the time so I put it down to that.

Cut to December and I talk to Orcon about it (having bought a new router and had the same result).  After some investigation, they advise me that Telecom/Chorous have put me on a Cabinet and hence the drop in speed.  Apparently the cabinets are put in to IMPROVE performance.

So in summary I've gone from 7-10Mbits to 2.8Mbits as a result of the new cabinets.

I've read the threads around pratically what is happening: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=82&TopicId=29290
 
But I find the answer unsatisfactory.  Just when I got a great internet service, it was taken away.

So what to do now?

Can I get taken off the cabinet and back to my copper to exchange that I was so happy with before???

Who do I lobby/complain to (because obviously Orcon's hands are tied)?  Is there a regulatory body or do I start with my MP or Chorous?

How does this cabinet be justified given the huge drop in bandwidth I've received?

Orcon advise they are trying to work something out with Telecom/Chorous, but I think its appalling that Orcon's service is being degraded by decisions that are out of their control.

I am looking for pratical lobby suggestions for letter writing.  (Or has the ship already sailed?)

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  Reply # 188712 11-Jan-2009 08:00
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I understand that Chorus and the ISPs are working hard to resolve this issue, so I doubt that there's much you can do.  But a letter to the minister could be worthwhile.

Did you read Duncan Blair's post in the thread that you quoted?  I'd get on to Orcon and get them to change you to Telecom Wholesale so that you get full advantage of the cabinet, which is after all intended to improve your broadband performance.  They'll be reluctant to do this for commercial reasons, but I'd lean on them pretty hard.  Otherwise change to any other ISP except Vodafone.

Like you, I'm getting good performance from Orcon (when it's on line), and am due to be cabinetised next year.  Hopefully it will all be sorted by then




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  Reply # 188717 11-Jan-2009 09:06
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Unfortunately this is one of the consequences of companies jumping in to install equipment in exchanges that at the same time are being made partly osbolete by Telecom.

The solution is sub loop unbulding - companies such as Orcon installing their ADSL equipment at the cabinet which means they have access to the shorter copper runs.

One thing that people do have to remember is that in the long term many of Telecom's exchanges will be made obsolete - once Telecom install a cabinet they only require the exchange still to provide voice circuits since they don't have an NGN voice solution in use yet. Once this is in place there will be exchanges that are obsolete and presumably would be canned. In these cases companies will need to move towards sub loop unbundling or Telecom wholesale if they want to still provide a service.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 188777 11-Jan-2009 13:26
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If all the ISps are going to install their stuff and going by the fotos  I have seen todate of the gear  installed a Ponsonby exchange in Auckland these cabinets are going to need to be as big as a house..




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  Reply # 188784 11-Jan-2009 13:45
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Unfortunately this is one of the consequences of companies jumping in to install equipment in exchanges that at the same time are being made partly osbolete by Telecom.


The bit I am struggling with, is how Chorous/Telecom is allowed to roll out cabinets without the rules of engagement and agreements being in place for other parties to put their equipment in the cabinets. 

It feels like this is the consequence of Chorous/Telecom jumping into cabinetisation prematurely. LLU was in place well before the cabinets rolled out.  This is the bit I will be writing to the minister about.  It doesn't seem like fair play.

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  Reply # 188794 11-Jan-2009 14:24
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cookernz:
Unfortunately this is one of the consequences of companies jumping in to install equipment in exchanges that at the same time are being made partly osbolete by Telecom.


The bit I am struggling with, is how Chorous/Telecom is allowed to roll out cabinets without the rules of engagement and agreements being in place for other parties to put their equipment in the cabinets. 

It feels like this is the consequence of Chorous/Telecom jumping into cabinetisation prematurely. LLU was in place well before the cabinets rolled out.  This is the bit I will be writing to the minister about.  It doesn't seem like fair play.


I disagree entirely. The plans for Telecom's NGN and cabinetisation have been in place for ~5 years now.

It was a case of telco's demanding ULL and their wish being granted. Their ULL plans meant access to exchanges that were going to be made obsolete by Telecom's existing future planning. Many telco's had paid very little attention to what Telecom had been planning for many years and then cried foul. That's not Telecom's problem - it's the problem of ISP's. They were granted their wish of ULL - unfortunately they got what they wanted when they should have been infact asking for a subloop ULL at the same time. There are many many people in the telco industry who got caught out by Telecom's NGN planning because they were simple chose to ignore Telecom's warnings or attend Telecom's briefings. That's hardly Telecom's problem.






 

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  Reply # 188807 11-Jan-2009 15:47
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cookernz:
Can I get taken off the cabinet and back to my copper to exchange that I was so happy with before???


Most likely you are still on that same copper cable. The only real change will be that instead of that copper twisted pair being jumpered through a passive cross connection cabinet, it will be jumpered through a cross connection panel (still passive) that just happens to be part of an FTTN cabinet containing Telecom DSLAM equipment.

The problem would appear to be that the signals from the cable pairs connected to these DSLAM, are being induced into your cable pair too. Previously these DSLAM were located at the same exchange as the Orcon DSLAM and crosstalk from these more distant DSLAM would have been less of a problem.

cookernz:
Who do I lobby/complain to (because obviously Orcon's hands are tied)?


cookernz:
Orcon advise they are trying to work something out with Telecom/Chorus, but I think its appalling that Orcon's service is being degraded by decisions that are out of their control.


Orcon are not impotent here. They have options to improve their network, so I'm not sure their hands are realy tied. Orcon promote their LLU plans as offering high(er) speed access and they should be the ones held accountable to deliver the service that was offered.

The fact that they use cable pairs from Chorus should not be the end users concern. I can think of at least 4-5 options available to Orcon:

Option 1 - Orcon get Chorus to fix these cable pairs.

If Chorus are not delivering a cable pair that is suitable for the job (including reasonable freedom from crosstalk), then Orcon should be the ones to demand that Chorus fix it. If Orcon are unwilling to demand that Chorus take action, or if the contract they signed with Chorus means they are unable to demand a certain performance standard, then Orcon should take responsibility for that.

If Orcon think that Chorus are acting in an anti-competitive manner (and I've not heard Orcon make this claim with regard to cable pair performance), then I'm sure they know how to contact the commerce commission.

Option 2 - Orcon/Kordia installs their own cabinet.

Orcon are owned by Kordia, who (amongst other things) install TV translators/repeaters and other equipment, including some small TV translators in outdoor cabinets. They have also carried out work for other operators, including installing GSM base stations in outdoor cabinets.

Kordia claim to have the required Civil and Electrical Engineering expertise:

http://www.kordiasolutions.com/broadcast_solutions_infrastructure_design_draughting_design
http://www.kordiasolutions.com/broadcast_solutions_network_systems_design

Orcon/ Kordia could install DSLAM equipment in their own cabinets. Of course it will cost more if every ISP installs their own cabinet, but Kordia could install the cabinet and lease equipment space to Orcon, Vodafone and even Telecom (just as a number of operators make use of facilities at Kordia's large TV transmitter sites).

Option 3 - Orcon can put you on a Telecom wholesale connection (as already mentioned above).

Option 4 - Orcon equipment in Chorus cabinet - details not finalised yet and not a simple matter as we can see from the following documents (probably a good idea to read these before you start writing letters):

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/IndustryRegulation/Telecommunications/StandardTermsDeterminations/SubloopUCLLservice/DecisionsList.aspx

Orcon statement on Cabinetisation:
http://www.orcon.net.nz/about/article/cabinetisation_what_does_it_mean_for_orcon_customers

Option 5 - Orcon/Kordia also have wireless options.

However it is up to Orcon to select one (or more) of the options available and fix the connections that have suffered degraded performance, to match the claims made by their sales people.

I'm not saying don't write a letter to the minister or your MP, it's everyone's right to do so.
Just make sure you have all the facts first.

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  Reply # 190395 18-Jan-2009 16:54
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It appears that the ISPs are all sitting on their lazy arses waiting for the govt process to sort out a regulated subloop unbundling rather then being proactive and talking to chorus about doing it on a commercial basis. No wonder things happen so slowly in NZ if they decide to wait for things to happen for them.




Richard rich.ms

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