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316 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 365937 10-Aug-2010 17:38

hmm still have no idea who owns the line..

anyway, it looks like another for the greater good argument. i thought nz is a market economy? what is wrong with offering better product wherever possible?


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WorldxChange

  Reply # 365939 10-Aug-2010 17:43
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TELECOM




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

 
 
 
 


I fix stuff!
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Vocus
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  Reply # 365960 10-Aug-2010 18:29
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Chorus own the phone line, Telecom, Orcon, Vodafone etc lease the line off Chorus.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 365966 10-Aug-2010 18:37

Interesting, say I were to own certain MHz of bandwidth in the air, and client A who leases a small segment from me decided to boost their signal so much so that it introduced interference to client B...

zero liability?

or maybe if client A foretold the situation and let everyone else know that they're going to do so is suffice?

i still don't see how by pre emptive notice would let them get out of this one...


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  Reply # 365967 10-Aug-2010 18:37
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ha and who owns Chorus

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  Reply # 365970 10-Aug-2010 18:46
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alliao: hmm still have no idea who owns the line..

anyway, it looks like another for the greater good argument. i thought nz is a market economy? what is wrong with offering better product wherever possible?



Absolutly nothing, more competion = more choices this is good for you the consumer, nothing wrong with LLU offerings they work and offer services you may want, but I think you are missing the point of my posts.

You and a couple of others were posting on how it was quiet on your queries on to why the difference once an area was cabinetised and querying why was it not illegal what Telecom was doing...or did I misread ?, What I was trying to point out is that the choices made by companies to deploy LLU was made with the full knowledge that Telecom was deploying a schedule of cabinet rollouts and perhaps should have known what the technicial ramifications will be on the LLU deployment and customers connected to these circuits once cabinetised.... That's a question you need to ask your SP...

The simple fact is that LLU offerings from who ever have some great qualities, but and this is a big but, the performance can and will change once it's gone through a a new cabinet, it is not Telecoms issue as the service providers that deployed this option did so with full disclosure from Telecom so all queries need to be aimed squarely at your SP.

I have just given you the other side of the discussion and tried to answer your questions, it's not about a greater good arguement, Companies make huge financial investments based on what they thought would work and now have to live with it, I will admit I do like this discussion though as the whole LLU argument was fiercely debated at the time and my own thoughts were around this whole issue and would it be economical when the exchanges start getting collapsed and cabinets rolled out, I think I even have a couple of old posts from a few years ago about this.





Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 365972 10-Aug-2010 18:56
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alliao: Interesting, say I were to own certain MHz of bandwidth in the air, and client A who leases a small segment from me decided to boost their signal so much so that it introduced interference to client B...

zero liability?

or maybe if client A foretold the situation and let everyone else know that they're going to do so is suffice?

i still don't see how by pre emptive notice would let them get out of this one...




Because they owned the network !!!!!, what they deployed was up to them, they consulted with the industry and advised what they were doing, it was Service providers choice to deploy over top of what Telecom were deploying.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

316 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 365974 10-Aug-2010 18:58

i see, since they own the lines, they can do whatever they want, fair enough.

so it all really boils down to telecom investors had money at the right time when nz govt was selling it? along with the lines?

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  Reply # 366167 11-Aug-2010 11:51
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alliao: i see, since they own the lines, they can do whatever they want, fair enough.

so it all really boils down to telecom investors had money at the right time when nz govt was selling it? along with the lines?


Also do not forget that Telecom had an obligation to the Government to bring faster broadband services to a majority of New Zelanders , this was binding agreement and obligation they signed and committed too and has big financial penalites if they don't do it.. the only way to do this was to shorten the copper through cabinets.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

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  Reply # 366386 11-Aug-2010 18:53
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Allio, with all respect I think you have a rather simplistic view of telecom politics and obligations telecom have undertaken with the guvment, talk to Telecom shareholders, dont think most of them are impressed with Dr Reynolds venture into FTTN, its not a good investor winner.

As has been pointed out, Orcon are at liberty to pull fibre to any location and install a cabinet near any home that they wish to, sadly they would go broke doing it and their investors would not be impressed.

I think Telecom is due some credence for (although belatedly) providing a good FTTN network that some more capable countries dont seem to drum up the resource to do.

Cyril

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  Reply # 366505 11-Aug-2010 22:01
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Assuming that the who is records are correct, and Xtra host www.nationalbank.co.nz, then I had some good old slow speed from Orcon again tonight. It took me 4 minutes from hiting enter after typing the URL in to get enough of the National Bank website loaded to get into the section I was after.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366542 11-Aug-2010 22:51
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I was on Orcon tonight and downloading at 6kb/s.... after an hour or so it "improved" to 20 or 30kb/s.

I want to stay but can't rely on the connection.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366548 11-Aug-2010 22:59

maverick:
alliao: i see, since they own the lines, they can do whatever they want, fair enough.

so it all really boils down to telecom investors had money at the right time when nz govt was selling it? along with the lines?


Also do not forget that Telecom had an obligation to the Government to bring faster broadband services to a majority of New Zelanders , this was binding agreement and obligation they signed and committed too and has big financial penalites if they don't do it.. the only way to do this was to shorten the copper through cabinets.


where can I find out more about this?

Is this an act? is it public information? 

316 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 19


  Reply # 366558 11-Aug-2010 23:23


cyril7: Allio, with all respect I think you have a rather simplistic view of telecom politics and obligations telecom have undertaken with the guvment, talk to Telecom shareholders, dont think most of them are impressed with Dr Reynolds venture into FTTN, its not a good investor winner.

As has been pointed out, Orcon are at liberty to pull fibre to any location and install a cabinet near any home that they wish to, sadly they would go broke doing it and their investors would not be impressed. 

I think Telecom is due some credence for (although belatedly) providing a good FTTN network that some more capable countries dont seem to drum up the resource to do. 


Cyril


well, majority of the shareholders don't own most of the stakes. for all we know, the biggest shares are probably in a handful of people's trusts. and we wouldn't know.

FTTN is not a good winner, but then competition made them feel obligated to participate, i'm sure no business is insane enough to through money away. Without FTTN it is Telecom that stands to lose it's market dominance. I wonder if the results are out? I'm not even sure telecom's been selected....though most likely..

I think the whole FTTN is rather dubious though, our connections are rather fast but data cap is just unheard of. Data cap makes you concious about it, and treat bandwidth as some kind of precious finite resource. How does it impact legal movie downloads pricing? When are we going to ever get services like Hulu or Netflix? 

The mind of young new zealanders on internet is unfortunately on the sad side of the digital divide. Kids growing up without a care in data traffic will have ideas that NZ kids never dreamt of, and for that I feel they've been disadvantaged.

NZ was one of the few countries that got ADSL first, due to the good kiwis act or something rather, during dialup era NZ internet users enjoyed unlimited internet too, it gave birth to a generation that developed the first WYSIWYG html editor(hot dog anyone?) and firefox and ghost (now bought by Norton). I just hope we'd see more. 

/rant over :P

427 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 366570 11-Aug-2010 23:56
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NZ was one of the few countries that got ADSL first, due to the good kiwis act or something rather, during dialup era NZ internet users enjoyed unlimited internet too, it gave birth to a generation that developed the first WYSIWYG html editor(hot dog anyone?) and firefox and ghost (now bought by Norton). I just hope we'd see more.


I understand your sentiment but...

1. While Hot Dog / Sausage Software came from a NZer, the company was based in Australia.
2. Firefox wasn't created by a NZer, though a NZer was the lead developer for a while (moved to Google AFAIK)

I do agree with you that NZ needs to be competitive in broadband as it will benefit the tech industry hugely. Why do most small NZ websites get hosted on US servers? Mostly cheaper. Why can't it be cheap here?

An interesting discussion... but shall we move the discussion back to Orcon being slow? ;-)

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