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  Reply # 316411 9-Apr-2010 07:48
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I am planning to check the whole phone net in the house next week. What is the best way to do this?

Disconnect all lines at the entry point, measure resistance... what would be the best approach?

Regards



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  Reply # 316746 10-Apr-2010 11:57
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Is there a number that I can ring, which will ring me back and display some caller id information? This would be very handy for testing.

Cheers

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  Reply # 316754 10-Apr-2010 12:16
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Eule: Is there a number that I can ring, which will ring me back and display some caller id information? This would be very handy for testing.


Cheers


Nope.

The first basic check I'd still be performing is trying a new modem. That's the one thing you haven't yet done.



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  Reply # 316767 10-Apr-2010 12:59
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I have tried two different modems of the same model and make. Both no luck.

If with a new modem you mean a recent model, can you please suggest some that are known to work with New Zealand caller id and that are external either serial port or USB that behaves like a USB to serial adaptor (show up as a com port in linux or windows).

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  Reply # 316975 11-Apr-2010 11:56
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Ok, here is what I have done.

I disconnected all home internal lines at the first entry socket. Only the first socket was now connected. That socket has an M on the outside and an extra component (see photo on earlier post).
Then I tried different configurations, all of them had the Dynalink modem attached:

A) ADSL Filter, splitter 1 to 2, phone, modem
B) splitter 1 to 2, phone, modem
C) modem

I interchanged 3 different filters I have, and two different modems. I tried different cables to the modem.
And I tried a second phone socket of the type M and one of type 2. And I swapped the cables over.

First of all none of these configurations consistently worked.
There was only one real pattern in the results, if I unplugged something (like phone or modem) for a few seconds and then plugged it back in, it would work(the modem would pick up the caller id) for a couple of tries (maybe 30 to 60 sec) and the stop working again.

First of all, I don't think the problem is in my home phone network.
I speculate that there is either some small fault on the line coming in (only my old modem is sensitive enough to pick that up) or Orcon (or Telecom) changed something in their system.

A few questions:

1. What should I do next?

2. What does the socket M and socket 2 stand for. Does one need one of each?

3. Is there something else I could do to test the lines coming to the house?

4. What type of fault could cause that behaviour (some stray capacity)?

Please let me know what you think.


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  Reply # 316983 11-Apr-2010 12:31
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M socckets are the old master and 2 are the new 2 wire ones.

In an ideal world youl should only be 2 wire jackpoints, the old M (master) ones were use in combination with extension ones to generate an anti tinkle back on the old days to stop the "tinkle" from other phones during decadic dialling.

2wire and M/E should not be used in conjunction with each other but the reality is this happens every day in the country because you won't find anything but 2 wire in most stores and people don't understand the difference.

No idea where do go next, the network certainly isn't broken otherwise the normal CID devices wouldn't work.

My money is on the modem being the issue.




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  Reply # 317204 12-Apr-2010 08:08
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So would you recommend that I replace all sockets with the 2 wired ones (I do have some I could use)?


When I initially rang orcon about the caller id trouble they told me to reset the phone connection by disconnecting all phone devices for 10 minutes, what does that do?

I agree with you that the modem is at fault, if it was using the same hardware as the other two caller id devices I have it should work perfectly. However it was working fine and now doesn't, if the modem changed (something broke inside) then a new modem of the same type should have fixed that problem, but it didn't (unless that second modem had the same fault). My guess is that the modem is overly sensitive and something else changed. I tried to find out what but failed so far.

Could you (or anybody else) suggest a replacement device (serial or usb modem that can reliably handle caller id)?

Otherwise I might have to make it a microprocessor project, in which case could anybody suggest a modem or caller id chipset that does FSK caller id including the New Zealand one.

Many thanks for your advice and help

Regards


sbiddle: M socckets are the old master and 2 are the new 2 wire ones.

In an ideal world youl should only be 2 wire jackpoints, the old M (master) ones were use in combination with extension ones to generate an anti tinkle back on the old days to stop the "tinkle" from other phones during decadic dialling.

2wire and M/E should not be used in conjunction with each other but the reality is this happens every day in the country because you won't find anything but 2 wire in most stores and people don't understand the difference.

No idea where do go next, the network certainly isn't broken otherwise the normal CID devices wouldn't work.

My money is on the modem being the issue.


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  Reply # 317214 12-Apr-2010 08:42
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Eule: So would you recommend that I replace all sockets with the 2 wired ones (I do have some I could use)?


When I initially rang orcon about the caller id trouble they told me to reset the phone connection by disconnecting all phone devices for 10 minutes, what does that do?



It gets you off the phone for 10 minutes is about all :)

Replacing old sockets with 2 wire ones (2 on cover) won't do any harm. The older types were prone to corrosion induced shorts mainly across the capacitor. The M shown in your picture was a late 90's type with a conformal coating on the PCB that helped but 2 wire types had other improvements.

The fact that your modem works sometimes tends to rule out a network change. CLI data can be in 2 formats, some older devices assumed only 1 type would ever be used whereas the standalone CLI always did both.

Have you tried your modem at another location? Do you use the modem for anything other than CLI? I've heard that some old Dynalink had a problem in the dc loop circuit that made them progressively noisier.

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  Reply # 317215 12-Apr-2010 08:47
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What exactly do you want to do with the CID?

My only suggestion for an upgrade would be to switch to a VoIP based solution. The last time I looked at a modem was probably 10 years ago so I can't offer any advice.



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  Reply # 317222 12-Apr-2010 09:14
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Bung:
Eule: So would you recommend that I replace all sockets with the 2 wired ones (I do have some I could use)?


When I initially rang orcon about the caller id trouble they told me to reset the phone connection by disconnecting all phone devices for 10 minutes, what does that do?



It gets you off the phone for 10 minutes is about all :)

Replacing old sockets with 2 wire ones (2 on cover) won't do any harm. The older types were prone to corrosion induced shorts mainly across the capacitor. The M shown in your picture was a late 90's type with a conformal coating on the PCB that helped but 2 wire types had other improvements.

The fact that your modem works sometimes tends to rule out a network change. CLI data can be in 2 formats, some older devices assumed only 1 type would ever be used whereas the standalone CLI always did both.

Have you tried your modem at another location? Do you use the modem for anything other than CLI? I've heard that some old Dynalink had a problem in the dc loop circuit that made them progressively noisier.


I use the modem only for caller id.

DC loop circuit,... how do I test that? Do you mean the external power supply or some internal power circuit?
If you have any more information about that, would be greatly appreciated.

Regards



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  Reply # 317227 12-Apr-2010 09:19
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sbiddle: What exactly do you want to do with the CID?

My only suggestion for an upgrade would be to switch to a VoIP based solution. The last time I looked at a modem was probably 10 years ago so I can't offer any advice.


I have written a windows service that monitors the com port of the modem. If an incoming call is detected the number is looked up in an address book and the the call is added to a database. Further I could have it send me an email with the details (pause music and video etc.). Since this only works while the pc is on I wanted to shift it to a NAS which could easily handle a serial (via usb 2 serial) or maybe a usb modem (that would be trickier).

Regards

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  Reply # 317229 12-Apr-2010 09:25
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Eule:I use the modem only for caller id.

DC loop circuit,... how do I test that? Do you mean the external power supply or some internal power circuit?
If you have any more information about that, would be greatly appreciated.

Regards


It was in the circuitry that terminates the phone line, so long ago that details escape me. If you used the modem for data without any problems that isn't likely to be it.

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  Reply # 317570 12-Apr-2010 23:40
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Eule: So would you recommend that I replace all sockets with the 2 wired ones (I do have some I could use)?


When I initially rang orcon about the caller id trouble they told me to reset the phone connection by disconnecting all phone devices for 10 minutes, what does that do?

It means that you will have to call back, will probably get someone else since the person you are talking to really cant be bothered with the problem. Used it often when I had the misfortune of working at an ISP helpdesk ;)

Eule:
I agree with you that the modem is at fault, if it was using the same hardware as the other two caller id devices I have it should work perfectly. However it was working fine and now doesn't, if the modem changed (something broke inside) then a new modem of the same type should have fixed that problem, but it didn't (unless that second modem had the same fault). My guess is that the modem is overly sensitive and something else changed. I tried to find out what but failed so far.

Could you (or anybody else) suggest a replacement device (serial or usb modem that can reliably handle caller id)?

Otherwise I might have to make it a microprocessor project, in which case could anybody suggest a modem or caller id chipset that does FSK caller id including the New Zealand one.

Many thanks for your advice and help

Regards


I would look at a dynalink rural modem, as they seemed to be the only one that worked with some sense of reliability when I tried it.

But really, get yourself an ATA with FXS/FXO on it, loads of embedded devices can run asterisk on them, that way you can put the calls thru it to do interesting things like tell withheld numbers to go away, not let certain people ring thru during certain hours etc.

Telecom have their own spec for caller ID with screwed up timing on the US standard, whereas most gear is made for the bellcore standard timing of rings and when the data is delivered, or else the UK way with polarity reveral and the ID before the first ring. I guess a stupid decision by telecom back in the dark ages to get caller ID working on some of their already obsolete at the time NEC gear lead to the problems, but thats not going to come right till they retire that gear. For what its worth, a dynalink 1456VQH modem that never once delivered caller ID on telecom kicked into life when the line was changed over to orcons gear. But that will probably not be an option for you any time soon with the current uncertanty about deploying any new gear for ISPs




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  Reply # 317606 13-Apr-2010 07:02
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richms:
Telecom have their own spec for caller ID with screwed up timing on the US standard, whereas most gear is made for the bellcore standard timing of rings and when the data is delivered, or else the UK way with polarity reveral and the ID before the first ring. I guess a stupid decision by telecom back in the dark ages to get caller ID working on some of their already obsolete at the time NEC gear lead to the problems, but thats not going to come right till they retire that gear. For what its worth, a dynalink 1456VQH modem that never once delivered caller ID on telecom kicked into life when the line was changed over to orcons gear. But that will probably not be an option for you any time soon with the current uncertanty about deploying any new gear for ISPs


Your Telecom line was probably on an even older NEC exchange that never delivered CLI to start with. Ignoring your opinion, standard Bellcore devices happily read Telecom CLI. The limitation is on the amount of data that can be delivered especially on some of the less used distinctive ring cadences ie you'd never get Caller Name as well as number.

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  Reply # 317764 13-Apr-2010 13:11
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Not all of them will read from telecom. The bellcore timing is different because the ring is different.

I had serveral cordless phones from the US that would not read the ID back before you could get decent ones here (900MHz analog ones mainly) I think I still have the 2.4Ghz one that nicely wipes out all wifi.




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