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  # 112609 24-Feb-2008 09:44
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BarTender: My current punt on the DTT boxes is they will be around the $350-400 range.



Again and I can't repeat myself too many times, Kordia/Freeview/TVNZ/Canwest are extremely foolish not to beam MPEG2 SD and MPEG4 HD over DTT. That way the bulk of the population without HDMI capible TV's can get the PQ improvement of DTT by purchasing a cheap sub $50 box from the supermarket, and those who have already spent 2K+ on their big widescreen TV, spending an extra $400+ for a HD receiver seems ok.



Again, the proof will be in the pudding, and what hits the paper "post DTT" launch... hey it's an election year, we could make this an election topic :P


Ok if they did decide to broadcast SD in MPEG2 and HD in H264 would you want the HD channels to be simulcast in SD for the cheaper set top boxes?




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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  # 112614 24-Feb-2008 10:20
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I dont like the idea of mixing mpeg2 and 4 to support cheaper SD boxs, it then creates a support trap that slows moving forward, exactly where Aus is now, for them to move onto mpeg4 is near impossible now. The approach FreeView have taken seems to make good sense.

What is a pity is that we still dont see any DVB-S SD boxs in the <$120 mark, I think we would see a rapid takeup of the DTH service if that happend. And based on pricing elsewhere in the world you can readily source DVB-S SD boxs at such a price and flog them for $100 and still make a profit. I guess there will be a few NZ importers who will disagree with that, but so be it.

Based on other consumer product pricing I think we will see DTT boxs halving in price in 2yrs time, even if its simply a stunt to get sales and takeup moving.

Cyril

 
 
 
 


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  # 112701 24-Feb-2008 15:37
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richms: I am so glad they didnt do the aussie way and send a SD and a HD signal of the same content. ...


I agree completely with you. Plus, all those boxes will be capable of downscaling to SD if one really wants to use an old TV...
(I guess that's also helpful for us early adopters without HDMI until ready to switch to a bigger TV)

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  # 112719 24-Feb-2008 16:34
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BarTender:
Again and I can't repeat myself too many times, Kordia/Freeview/TVNZ/Canwest are extremely foolish not to beam MPEG2 SD and MPEG4 HD over DTT. That way the bulk of the population without HDMI capible TV's can get the PQ improvement of DTT by purchasing a cheap sub $50 box from the supermarket, and those who have already spent 2K+ on their big widescreen TV, spending an extra $400+ for a HD receiver seems ok.



I tended to think that going H.264 rather than MPEG2 was a mistake as well but I now see it as one of the smartest things NZ has ever done. Australia want H.264, the UK want H.264, infact virtually everybody who's currently got MPEG2 DVB-T broadcasts wants H.264/MPEG4 but they're all stuck with a legacy system that can never be shut down due to the large number of devices in operation. Australia will probably never be able to migrate away from MPEG2 and the UK has plans to try and run both but are expecting a lot of problems.

Transmitting both MPEG2 and MPEG4 would be stupid, I'd far prefer our 700MHz UHF spectrum to be used for large scale WiMAX rollouts!

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  # 112729 24-Feb-2008 16:48
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Transmitting both MPEG2 and MPEG4 would be stupid, I'd far prefer our 700MHz UHF spectrum to be used for large scale WiMAX rollouts!


Tooo right!

Cyril

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  # 112749 24-Feb-2008 18:29
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Australia really missed a trick with their initial dual casting policy. They could have simply mandated that the SD STBs could downscale the HD broadcasts to SD.

Also remember when comparing the PC based tuners to the STBs that for a PC based tuner you need an expensive PC to do the decoding of the H.264 signal. Suddently a NZ$400+ STB isn't that expensive. Also who else here paid a lot more than that for their first DVD player?




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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  # 112797 24-Feb-2008 22:35
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Quite right, I spent about $12 or 13 hundred on my first dvd player. still have it somewhere but its not used anymore thanks to its not being able to play any recordable media and that I seldom actually want to play stuff directly off a plastic shiney trinket anymore.

I think that we will be at $80 tops for a STB at analog switch off time, with ones with several gigs of flash mem in it for pvr use and about the size of a dvd case being a couple of hundred dollars.




Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 


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  # 112832 25-Feb-2008 08:56
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allstarnz: I see in the latest Noel Leeming prices, the starting price for the new Freeview terrestrial is going to be about $550!! Is it just me or is that quite steep.  How can something cost that much when a DVB-T card costs you less than $100

Anyone know what sort of boxes will turn up around mid March?


Way over the top as far as I'm concerned.  The great NZ rip off again. Is Freeview DTT trying to fail..??   Only the Geeks, tech must haves and the rich will buy these.  Hell you can buy a multituner Tivo in the US for less that $NZ400.  Unless they come down to $300 or less I'm not interested..




Regards,

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  # 112836 25-Feb-2008 09:06
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DTT won't fail based on the initial list price of the STB's.  For most, the advent of HD in NZ will pass with neary a second thought.

Reason - a far greater majority don't even have a TV that fully supports HD yet.  Worse, some bought those 1st gen "HD" sets that are only 480p min.  So there's no benefit to them buying a STB.  By the time they do invest in a fully HD compliant TV, either the tuner will be inbuilt, or the cost of the STB will have dropped like a stone.

As I said before, it's more of a hurdle for the early adopters, but then again most early adopters I know have built HTPC's so it's not really an issue.  I would have thought sales of DTT STB's at that price point would be very meagre. 


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  # 112837 25-Feb-2008 09:07
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old3eyes:
allstarnz: I see in the latest Noel Leeming prices, the starting price for the new Freeview terrestrial is going to be about $550!! Is it just me or is that quite steep. How can something cost that much when a DVB-T card costs you less than $100

Anyone know what sort of boxes will turn up around mid March?


Way over the top as far as I'm concerned. The great NZ rip off again. Is Freeview DTT trying to fail..?? Only the Geeks, tech must haves and the rich will buy these. Hell you can buy a multituner Tivo in the US for less that $NZ400. Unless they come down to $300 or less I'm not interested..


Don't forget the US$ 13 a month service plan you need to keep it running with EPG data etc.

Steve




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


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  # 112838 25-Feb-2008 09:08
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old3eyes:
allstarnz: I see in the latest Noel Leeming prices, the starting price for the new Freeview terrestrial is going to be about $550!! Is it just me or is that quite steep.  How can something cost that much when a DVB-T card costs you less than $100

Anyone know what sort of boxes will turn up around mid March?


Way over the top as far as I'm concerned.  The great NZ rip off again. Is Freeview DTT trying to fail..??   Only the Geeks, tech must haves and the rich will buy these.  Hell you can buy a multituner Tivo in the US for less that $NZ400.  Unless they come down to $300 or less I'm not interested..


If you looked at overseas priced for MHEG5 capable H.264 boxes you would realise that it's anything but a rip off and our pricing isnt that different to Norway. These boxes are expensive and nobody is denying that. Once more manufacturers start launching H.264 boxes the price will start to drop.

Freeview isn't trying to fail because it can't fail since it's not competing againt anybody. It's the future platform for FTA TV in NZ.

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  # 112842 25-Feb-2008 09:26
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A lot of people (inc. my family) are wanting to get Freeview for the new channels (which are being quite heavily advertised) and couldn't care less about SD/HD.

In my families case they have a perfectly good UHF aerial with good signal, but it's likely at these prices it will still be cheaper for them to buy a satelite dish & cheap dvb-s decoder, rather than a terestrial box - which seems just odd!

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  # 112850 25-Feb-2008 10:04
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Except for its ridiculous price as well!!!

You'll be able to buy a complete media center, with 2 tuners, and a XBox 360 Arcade as an extender for about the price of the PS3 ($800 without accesorites) + TV Gadget ($2-400) + Sony harddisk ($2-400) (an 80 GB does'nt cut it in the Media Center world).  And it will look like Spaghetti...


Wow, so you can buy a Media center pc(Should include a Bluray drive which last time i checked were around $800), and xbox360 for the same price and functionality of a PS3($789.99) + Dual tuner DVB-T PlayTv (99 pounds ~ NZ$231.63) + 160Gb WD1600BEVS Notebook SATA Hard Drive ($150.00)
Totaling:$1171.62 thats something id like to see!

i watched a video showing the use and features of playtv and it was beautiful, even if it werent the cheapest option i think this would be the way to go.

$550 seems rediculous to me but maybe the olympics in HD will sway some people?

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  # 112857 25-Feb-2008 10:49
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halfbaked:

Except for its ridiculous price as well!!!

You'll be able to buy a complete media center, with 2 tuners, and a XBox 360 Arcade as an extender for about the price of the PS3 ($800 without accesorites) + TV Gadget ($2-400) + Sony harddisk ($2-400) (an 80 GB does'nt cut it in the Media Center world).  And it will look like Spaghetti...


Wow, so you can buy a Media center pc(Should include a Bluray drive which last time i checked were around $800), and xbox360 for the same price and functionality of a PS3($789.99) + Dual tuner DVB-T PlayTv (99 pounds ~ NZ$231.63) + 160Gb WD1600BEVS Notebook SATA Hard Drive ($150.00)
Totaling:$1171.62 thats something id like to see!

i watched a video showing the use and features of playtv and it was beautiful, even if it werent the cheapest option i think this would be the way to go.

$550 seems rediculous to me but maybe the olympics in HD will sway some people?


Procase 100                $88.00
MSI w/on board HDMI   $148.78
MCE Remote                $60.00
AMD 4200 X2 CPU        $105.75
1GB DDR2                   $45.86
HVR-3000 x 2              $314.00
160 GB Hard Drive        $82.13
Vista Home Premium    $157.50
BDC-220 Blueray Drive  $220.00
                                  $1,222.02

All except the BDC-220 from a single NZ retailer. 

So thats a dual tuner (with ability to input/record Sky), HTPC fully licensed all in one box with one power supply.  Add $150 if you don't like the onboard ATI video (does play h.264 just fine, and $5-80 if you want PowerDVD.  Above prices would reduce with a lower cost DVB-T only tuner (couldn't find a price in 30 seconds).  Above box will support DVB-S, DVB-T, and Analog.  Warranty included.

Now lets see what Play TV really costs when it gets here, and what Sony NZ official HD upgrades cost ie ones that don't void your warranty/online support.  That'll pay for the Xbox 360 Arcade to use as a games machine/extender.


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  # 112862 25-Feb-2008 10:58
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Mattnzl: A lot of people (inc. my family) are wanting to get Freeview for the new channels (which are being quite heavily advertised) and couldn't care less about SD/HD.

In my families case they have a perfectly good UHF aerial with good signal, but it's likely at these prices it will still be cheaper for them to buy a satelite dish & cheap dvb-s decoder, rather than a terestrial box - which seems just odd!


The price of STB's will become irrelevant once TV's start appearing with DVB-T tuners in them. 

It's almost impossible to find any LCD or Plasma TV in Aussie that doesn't have a DVB-T tuner as there is no market for products without one built in. This isn't going to happen overnight in NZ due to the H.264 hardware but the reality is that I'd estimate that in probably less than 2 years from now it'll be impossible to find a TV in NZ that doesn't have a built in digital tuner. Once a few companies start introducing them then any manufacturers who have TV's in the market without them are going to find themselves seriously disadvantaged. While I haven't heard anything definate yet I've heard speculation that both Sony and Panasonic will have new models in the NZ market well before the end of the year with built in tuners.



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