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Topic # 25470 22-Aug-2008 10:10
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Hi guys,

I got a freeview tuner for my TV, which is a CRT style TV with 4:3 aspect.

I notice some stuff broadcast is widescreen, and thats fine. But some of the shows/ads are 4:3 and for some reason my Sony TV is not showing the 4:3 stuff in full screen - its got a fairly descent size black border around the edge.

Anyone know why?

How to fix?

Thanks

-Al

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  Reply # 158891 22-Aug-2008 10:21
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I got this after my sister-in-law played with our Sky Digital settings.  My thinking is that, although a program may be in 4:3, the actual signal being provided is still 16:9.  Therefore, you still get the black bars top and bottom for the widescreen presentation, but you also get the black sides from the 4:3 (if that makes sense).

Looks like we have only two options... keep it as-is or use the 4:3 mode where it cuts off the ends of the 16:9 but fits top and bottom.

(it does look like you're peering through a slot in the TV, doesn't it?)




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  Reply # 158896 22-Aug-2008 10:46
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Yeah watching tv is a complete laugh at the moment.  The ad breaks are a crack up as the picture jumps all over the place.  On most set top boxes though there are 3 setting to size the picture.  Wide screen is as it's broadcast, or at least scaling until the signal picture hits the left and right sides of the tv.  Pillar box, or other scales until the picture hits the top and bottom of the screen.  Zoom, or Crop and pan is your only option here in that it will scale in both directions.  C4 benefits from this especially for example. 
Some TV's automatically do it, but others you have to manually adjust each time or each channel etc.  Yes above is correct too, in that a 4:3 picture sent out is often the 4:3 picture set on a widescreen black background.  This keeps it in proportion and still sends it as a widescreen picture.  Sorry, but you'll have to crop/zoom to view properly and hope you don't cut too much off in the process.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 158897 22-Aug-2008 10:48
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Im getting this with sky on alot of channels. Changes between 4:3 & 16:9 randomly. Some programs are wide, some ads are wide, some arent

Sky STB & tv both set to 16:9. Only started happening recently. My friend who has a CRT and sky is also getting it.

Starting to piss me off!




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  Reply # 158916 22-Aug-2008 11:23
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Yeah the wife hates this, was never an issue on the old analogue tv.
I'll not put up with it, if I'm going to watch C4 etc I'll crop it and then change to a different setting when I change channel, doesn't bother me, but for a lot of people this is just another hassle.
Fk, nothing in this game is easy any more.  You used to have one remote for the tv.  Even when you plugged a VCR in it got tuned to RF channel 0 or similar.  Now a TV is a display device and you select your input device and output device for the surround receiver, mucho difficult for anyone not so technically minded.  We have a standard setup and now have 4 remotes.

I agree though I found it very difficult to understand why something with black bars top and bottom and left and right wasn't scaled up to fill the screen.  Now understand it's 4:3 dumped on a wide 16x9 black banner.  TV picks this up as 16:9 so doesn't bother scaling it.  TV keeps black bands top and bottom for wide screen but source has black bands left and right as well.

Big thing for me, is why is widescreen tv broadcast in an aspect ration that has black bands top and bottom still?  My widescreen tv is not wide enough to display normal TV full screen!

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  Reply # 158945 22-Aug-2008 13:02
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Asmodeus: Im getting this with sky on alot of channels. Changes between 4:3 & 16:9 randomly. Some programs are wide, some ads are wide, some arent

Sky STB & tv both set to 16:9. Only started happening recently. My friend who has a CRT and sky is also getting it.

Starting to piss me off!


Think of it this way.

Channels are broadcast in 16:9
But your TV is 4:3 so software in the Sky/Freeview box adds black lines above and below.



Sky/TVNZ/Canwest/Kordia have some programming that is in 4:3 so they add black bars either side.



So combined you see a picture in a black box.


This is a temporary issue as all new programming is being recorded in 16:9
Once it has all transitioned over you will only see top and bottom bars on a 4:3 screen.
Or a full picture on a 16:9 screen




Hmmmm

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  Reply # 158981 22-Aug-2008 15:49
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I realise what the prob is, but thanks for the graphic. I mostly get the bars on the sides (I have a 37" lcd) and occasionally on the top & bottom. Luckily it never happens during Olympic footage (would be a real piss off) but happens on nearly every other channel at some point...

My friends CRT look ridiculous with the bars as its already cramped enough...

Any idea how long this will go on for, or does no one know?




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  Reply # 159035 22-Aug-2008 19:07
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For as long as there is stuff that has been recorded in formats other then 16:9... read more then likely longer then you are alive.

I it will sure get better as older stuff is no longer shown but I would never expect it to go away all together.

Plus you will always get bars top and bottom  for some things as film is often not shot at 16:9.







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  Reply # 159117 23-Aug-2008 09:22
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Thanks guys - that explains it well. Basically I need to buy a new TV :-)

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  Reply # 159120 23-Aug-2008 09:48
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You'll still have bars, even on a widescreen tv, when they play old 4:3 content.   Until the 4:3 content continues, there's no escape from the black bars of doom! :)




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  Reply # 159122 23-Aug-2008 10:18
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Yes - but it will only be black bars at the sides at least

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  Reply # 159191 23-Aug-2008 19:59
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bigal_nz: Yes - but it will only be black bars at the sides at least


Black bars at the sides are the worst of the lot!!




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  Reply # 159207 23-Aug-2008 22:49
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Bars on the side are what you get watching 4:3 on a 16:9 display anyway, so its no different to the TV adding the bars if the set top was set to center cut.

What I find the most annoying is that C4 play videos out which are 16:9 but not scaled up to the full 16:9 frame, so there is about 15% blankness on each side of it even on a widescreen tv.




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  Reply # 159217 23-Aug-2008 23:22
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richms: What I find the most annoying is that C4 play videos out which are 16:9 but not scaled up to the full 16:9 frame, so there is about 15% blankness on each side of it even on a widescreen tv.


TV1 and TV2 do it *sometimes* as well Yell

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  Reply # 159220 23-Aug-2008 23:36
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I have only seen it on the 16:9 segments of 4:3 reality crap shows that they play, and really, I couldnt care if there was no picture with them.

Its C4's constant screwup of aspects that I find the most annoying since I watch it the most.




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  Reply # 166160 22-Sep-2008 08:45
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This is a good simple article on widescreen display.
http://www.dtg.org.uk/consumer/widescreen.html

In my case i have a 29" 4:3 crt tv. When using freeview terrestrial through my pc tuner card certain programs have that black box look with black boarders around the program. Going by the link above this is because the program is broadcast as "Pillar Box" then because my tv is 4:3 it is displayed as "Letterbox" giving you that black box look.


"Pillar Box"


"Letterbox"




My current solution is to record these shows then make the ts file directshow supported so they can be used with avisynth's DirectShowSource and crop to make it be displayed full screen on tv.

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