You Ask Freeview thread #3

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2787 posts

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#224024 11-Jun-2009 15:33

You don't have to use the S&T Engine.

There are several open source engines, one if which is used by MythTV - http://www.mypvr.co.nz/mypvr/myPVR%20FreeView.html

Would you care to define Not Expensive?

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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freeviewsholdbefree

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#224028 11-Jun-2009 15:39

Fossie: Cool, lets broadcast an antiquated system, lacking cool features.....

Yes correct, we are lacking cool features because of the lack of EIT EPG support, I am not surgesting removing MHEG5, just adding EIT to allow for vastly superiour EPGs at low cost to consumers like PlayTV, Topfield TRF7150s, Windows 7 (Windows 7 supports the EIT EPG and works great for DVB-S Freeview, it would work great for Freeview HD if Freeview were to populate the whole EIT EPG at the minute it is filled with "." for the program name, Cyberlink Power Cinema .... etc etc ....

We are having our choice of PVRs restricted for no reason except that Freeview are not transmitting the EIT EPG.

freeviewsholdbefree

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#224048 11-Jun-2009 16:18

openmedia: You don't have to use the S&T Engine.

There are several open source engines, one if which is used by MythTV - http://www.mypvr.co.nz/mypvr/myPVR%20FreeView.html

Would you care to define Not Expensive?

S&T has an Engine that is delivered as object code, compiled to the customer’s specification, with a fully documented API for the customer to implement in order to integrate the engine with their DVB middleware stack. A set of API test applications is also available to ease the integration process and their engineers are usually required to help integrate the MHEG5 engine. They have spent 10 years of continual development developing the product so you just need to fork over the $300000 - $1000000 and the job is done.

Or you could spend the next 10 years adapting an engine that is not designed for the platform you want to use it on. I would say this is also an expensive solution.

If I am wrong please let us know what free code, particularly any that could be easily used on a STB is available, I see the myPVR uses the Redbutton engine but I don't think that is suitable unless you are running Linux with Xwindows (i.e. a Linux based PC), it is in BETA 4 and seems to have no documentation on the sourceforge site anyway.

Or Freeivew click their mouse and populate the rest of the EIT EPG and everyone’s STBs, PCI cards and consoles and just work using the EIT EPG engines that are already in place.

jpollock

600 posts

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#224100 11-Jun-2009 17:39

O.k. let's see if I can paraphrase:

    Software development is hard. It's hard to develop to the ISO MHEG5 standard. The UK, New Zealand and Hong
    Kong aren't large enough markets to justify us spending the time to develop an in house MHEG5 interpreter.

    S&T provide a pre-built library. Since we already use them for EIT, it is a drop-in replacement. However, since it's a
    drop-in replacement, S&T is charging us an arm and a leg!

Um, "boohoo"?

http://www.s-and-t.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHEG5
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Information_Table (in german)

Now, if you wanted something to complain about, the choice of audio codec would be something that I'd be more likely to target.

MythTV contains a MHEG-5 interpretor, and it's free. Of course, you would have to comply with GPLv2, but that shouldn't be too hard. Take the interpretor, make it work from a socket/pipe, and send data to it. Just make sure to release the source for your version!

---
http://blog.jason.pollock.ca

openmedia

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#224116 11-Jun-2009 18:43

freeviewsholdbefree:

If I am wrong please let us know what free code, particularly any that could be easily used on a STB is available, I see the myPVR uses the Redbutton engine but I don't think that is suitable unless you are running Linux with Xwindows (i.e. a Linux based PC), it is in BETA 4 and seems to have no documentation on the sourceforge site anyway.

Or Freeivew click their mouse and populate the rest of the EIT EPG and everyone’s STBs, PCI cards and consoles and just work using the EIT EPG engines that are already in place.

myPVR uses MythTV's engine, but I also contribute patches to RedButton to make sure it works. Both of these engines work on Mac/Linux/Windows as well as embedded platforms as they are standard C code.

I'd love to see full EIT tables on freeview|HD, but I very much doubt we'll see it.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

allstarnz

1711 posts

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#224139 11-Jun-2009 20:10

jpollock:
Now, if you wanted something to complain about, the choice of audio codec would be something that I'd be more likely to target.

Snap. It's horrible. Can't be played by much software, is is a nightmare to recode.

Gemini

429 posts

Ultimate Geek

#226586 19-Jun-2009 10:02

Gemini: Digital transmission - UHF off

An article I read recently suggested Telecom and Vodafone are keen to make use of the UHF band as soon as possible. Do you think we might see UHF TV broadcasting "turned off" sooner rather than later? This might help solve the no Prime on Freeview issue.

Further to my previous post above.

SKY TV are already committed to international sports events (Olympics, RWC) that require FTA broadcasting as well as their PAY TV component. If analogue has been turned off, they'll have to broadcast on Freeview. The Ho prime on Freeview problem goes away. Would you consider lobbying the government for an earlier analogue or at least UHF switch off?

old3eyes

8864 posts

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#226748 19-Jun-2009 16:22

Gemini:
Gemini: Digital transmission - UHF off

An article I read recently suggested Telecom and Vodafone are keen to make use of the UHF band as soon as possible. Do you think we might see UHF TV broadcasting "turned off" sooner rather than later? This might help solve the no Prime on Freeview issue.

Further to my previous post above.

SKY TV are already committed to international sports events (Olympics, RWC) that require FTA broadcasting as well as their PAY TV component. If analogue has been turned off, they'll have to broadcast on Freeview. The Ho prime on Freeview problem goes away. Would you consider lobbying the government for an earlier analogue or at least UHF switch off?

What's the bet that Sky sets up their own DTT service just to spite Freeview??

Regards,

Old3eyes

jpollock

600 posts

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#226782 19-Jun-2009 17:27

old3eyes:

What's the bet that Sky sets up their own DTT service just to spite Freeview??

If it was Free-To-Air DTT, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

---
http://blog.jason.pollock.ca

sbiddle

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#226807 19-Jun-2009 18:45

old3eyes

What's the bet that Sky sets up their own DTT service just to spite Freeview??

I haven't hear anything for at least 6 months now..Back then however I would have put money on this happening and Sky had publically announced they had entered into negotiations with hardware suppliers.

Things chance fast in the broadcast industry so it's anybody's guess.

old3eyes

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#226814 19-Jun-2009 19:01

jpollock:
old3eyes:

What's the bet that Sky sets up their own DTT service just to spite Freeview??

If it was Free-To-Air DTT, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

You will they used a different DTT standard or placed their transmitters somewhere else so you need two aerials.

Regards,

Old3eyes

jpollock

600 posts

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#226868 19-Jun-2009 21:41

Heh. I don't think they're going to move their UHF transmitters just to spite me. (I'm using a Sky UHF aerial to receive Freeview). I also don't see them using ATSC, it isn't suited for the NZ environment - not enough flat, open space. Different codec maybe, but then, that also wouldn't bother me.

Why would Sky join Freeview. All it is is a channel number (not a frequency, just the number) and the right to feed your data into the EPG. For someone like Sky, who already manages those things for themselves - and enjoys renumbering channels- this is not a compelling offering.

Particularly when you consider that Sky could do something like this:

You have a combined DVB-T/S set-top box. You dynamically allocate terrestrial/satellite bandwidth based on the HD-ness of the signal. TV1 broadcasting in SD? They're satellite only. An HD signal coming up? Allocate them a spot in one of your DVB-T signals, and watch the tuners switch automatically at the next commercial break. Do the same with your sports channels and the higher number channels, such as Discovery. Heck, let the content provider _bid_ for the right to broadcast in HD!

That would be very cool. But it requires that you have control of the set-top box, the channel numbering guide the EPG and the frequencies.

---
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cmqwz

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#226967 20-Jun-2009 10:31

For the fault, can you follow the steps to check:

can you go the the auto scan menu under the menu satellite setting to automatically search ?

if can 't get channels,

0. if you can't poweron your satellite rceiver , check you satellite dish RG6 cable , it might be short circuit, check the connectors , might some wires touch the rings.

1.your exist dish position changed a little by wind .

2. LNB not good again.( swap with your friend's working Sky is a good mothed to indentify)

3. cable to dish got some water in, or not connected good.

4. the receiver not good, or haven't set with LNB power on 13v/18v( H/V) in the menu.

take the receiver to other people's house who has a Sky dish that is using to test the receiver.

take people's good receiver to your house to test your dish.

if your dish is not good, try to use a satellite finder to relocate the D1 satellite.

HOW TO INSTALL YOUR OWN SATELLITE DISH USING A SATELLITE FINDER

my method:

when you try to find D1 satellite, turn the channel to NZTV 1 , or NZTV 2 , or NZTV6 ,anyway, NZ free view satellite D1 's Chanel, even if have not signal yet,then use the finder to do the finding satellite.you can use my method to find the satellite: Firstly, make sure the satellite finder is good, turn the indicator to middle, if can not can turn to middle, make sure turn up , then down , let the indicator just drop to 2 scale, then use hand to wave at the front of the LNB ( all connected including receiver, and power on ), indicator should go up a little when you wave yur hand at the front of the LNB.

the finder should have a light on inside, use hand to test the finder sensitivity.

assemble all of the dish ,LNB connect turn to 8 of clock when you face the dish, then point the dish to west, test the satellite finder first,then push up the dish and slowly down , then pull back to north a little little bit, do the same up and slowly down,

repeat , pull to north , up down, keep doing, once find a signal , go to receiver's menu , "auto scan", to automatically search out all the channels , if not the D1 satellite, pull to north more ,do up and down , repeat ....

until you find D1 satellite please.the final, dish will point to about right middle of west and north, the up point angle will be about 45 dedgrees.

I, my self, can find the satellite in half minute with this method.

another method:

1. Assemble dish as per manufacturers instructions. Ensure mount is vertical. Leave clamps firm but adjustable.
2. Fix LNBF to dish with feed cable at approximately 8 oclock position as viewed looking into front of dish.
3. Set elevation approximately using scale on dish, to required angle as determined by Look Angle chart below.
4. Point the dish somewhere east of compass bearing (azimuth) listed below
5. Set up Satellite receiver, connecting to TV as per instruction manual. Follow installation instructions to receive from required satellite. Satellite receiver must be turned on.
6. Insert Satellite Finder in cable between receiver and LNB, note connection direction on the rear of the meter.
7. Adjust control clockwise until tone sounds then reduce for no sound. Turn dish westwards on mount until tone increases as it picks up signal from satellite. The meter reading should go off the scale when you "hit" a satellite. (Note - by approaching from the east you should pick up Optus D1 first).
8. Turn meter knob anticlockwise to bring reading back to centre of scale. Adjust dish (elevation and compass direction) and rotation of LNBF for maximum reading on meter and loudest sound output. Gradually adjust knob anticlockwise to reduce reading then readjust dish to maximise meter reading for greatest sensitivity. Repeat as necessary.
9. Lock off the dish. Satellite receiver is now ready to download channels.
10. If your satellite receiver indicates good signal level but no quality you may be on the wrong satellite or the LNB local oscillator setting is incorrect. Usually 11300 for single LNB and 10750 for dual LNB. The LNB voltage should be 18V or H (depending on model of receiver)
Look Angle Table: Optus D1 (Freeview)
Azimuth: Magnetic azimuth or compass bearing (degrees) Elevation: Elevation

www.satsig.net/maps/satellite-tv-dish-pointing-aus tralia-new-zealand.htm

benneg

47 posts

Geek

#228076 24-Jun-2009 19:37

old3eyes:
Gemini:
Gemini: Digital transmission - UHF off

An article I read recently suggested Telecom and Vodafone are keen to make use of the UHF band as soon as possible. Do you think we might see UHF TV broadcasting "turned off" sooner rather than later? This might help solve the no Prime on Freeview issue.

Further to my previous post above.

SKY TV are already committed to international sports events (Olympics, RWC) that require FTA broadcasting as well as their PAY TV component. If analogue has been turned off, they'll have to broadcast on Freeview. The Ho prime on Freeview problem goes away. Would you consider lobbying the government for an earlier analogue or at least UHF switch off?

What's the bet that Sky sets up their own DTT service just to spite Freeview??

Why on earth would they go to the huge cost of doing that when they could simply offer the same package through their satellite service? My bet is they will offer a package of free to air channels using their existing network and include Prime that way. Same result for freeview, much less cost for Sky. Better for them to have these viewers on their network where they can sell them extra services, than having them use the freeview platform. They will wake up to that someday!

old3eyes

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#228082 24-Jun-2009 20:23

It woulds hardly be a FTA over the air channel then would it and you would still have to use a Sky STB not your TV tuner..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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