Sony HD Ready TV's - Certified HD Freeview Impossible without HDMI?

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273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#239476 27-Jul-2009 21:24

dickytim: Please refrain from making BS references to environmental issues when you don't actually give a toss, if you did you'd "take one for the team" and keep this TV for the sake of the environment.

Dear dickytim; please do not presume or speculate that my values are anywhere near your values, they clearly are not.

This thread is getting rediculous, no-one agrees with you so take it to the small claims tribunal or mediation, stop bleeting on the internet and do it properly.

Would Sony prefer to have this discussion out of the public eye? Why would that be? Sony have had a very fair chance to resolve matters.

When are Sony going to correct the incorrect specifications on the URL's http://www.sony.co.nz/products/product/blu-ray-and-dvd/blu-ray-player/bdps350.jsp and http://www.sony.co.nz/products/product/blu-ray-and-dvd/blu-ray-player/bdps550.jsp?

From a work mate who worked for Sony marketing they will usually give you a TV to shut you up and move you along, deal with it properly and you might get lucky, no-one here is going to give you your free TV

Come on Dickytim, which one are you saying here? Do they or do they not give away TV's to silence people?

How is it at Sony?

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Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#239481 27-Jul-2009 21:31

tonyhughes: The standards are there, Freeview COULD support HD over component if they chose to, but they don't.

Interesting isn't it, why do Freeview New Zealand Standards enforce HD over HDMI? What is in it for them? Surely they want to maximise uptake of Freeview in NZ? After all, it is FREEview. So why set this standard?

Is it about their free choice - or more about their being persuaded?

Regs

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Snowflake

#239505 27-Jul-2009 23:25

you bought an "HD Ready TV"
- not a "Freeview Ready TV:
- not a "Displays 1080p HD Signals with 1:1 pixel mapping TV"
- not a "Displays 720p HD Signals with 1:1 pixel mapping TV"
- not even a "Displays HD Content in 16:9 aspect" (letterboxed 16:9 in a 4:3 screen could potentially pass as "HD ready" in my opinion)

what does HD Ready mean? I always took it to mean that the television could accept a 720p/1080i signal and display it somehow - not that it displayed it in high definition. When the first "HD Ready" sets came out, Freeview did not exist, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were not released and the US had started delivering "HD Television" with 720p or 1080i resolutions and set-top boxes used component or DVI to deliver the signal to the screen, neither of which were protected by HDCP.

The term "HD Ready" is not a trademarked term, nor is there an ISO standard, or production/broadcast standard or other standards body governing the use of this term that i am aware of. Its purely a 'marketing' term.

I think that Sony's offer of a new set at 40% off the RRP sounds like not a bad offer (unless their RRP is
so high that it makes it pointless in which case this would be purely 'marketing' exercise too).

Consider a car that states it can run on either regular or premium (high octane) petrol/gasoline. Just because it can accept the premium gas doesnt necessarily mean it will perform to the full potential of the higher octane gas. In all likelyhood it will run no better than when using regular gas, it will just cost you more to feed it. If you filled up with premium gas and the car drove no faster and got no more miles-to-the-gallon, do you think you could demand a new car because this one obviously wasnt "Premium Ready" enough?

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openmedia

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#239506 27-Jul-2009 23:25

Hinko:
tonyhughes: The standards are there, Freeview COULD support HD over component if they chose to, but they don't.

Interesting isn't it, why do Freeview New Zealand Standards enforce HD over HDMI? What is in it for them? Surely they want to maximise uptake of Freeview in NZ? After all, it is FREEview. So why set this standard?

Is it about their free choice - or more about their being persuaded?

It isn't freeview that have required this.

The content providers put some pressure on TVNZ and Mediaworks to require HDCP.

Same issue locally with Sky and HD Content.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

Regs

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Snowflake

#239508 27-Jul-2009 23:30

Hinko:
tonyhughes: The standards are there, Freeview COULD support HD over component if they chose to, but they don't.

Interesting isn't it, why do Freeview New Zealand Standards enforce HD over HDMI? What is in it for them? Surely they want to maximise uptake of Freeview in NZ? After all, it is FREEview. So why set this standard?

Is it about their free choice - or more about their being persuaded?

I expect that this requirement probably comes from the networks which will likely have this specified in the HD supply contracts from the content owners.

From the http://freeviewnz.tv web site:

What is HDMI?

High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) is a new type of connection between digital receivers, DVD players, game machines and TV’s. It is fast becoming standard in most new devices and surpasses similar analogue devices like scart and component connections in both quality and simplicity. It also has the ability to work with new and developing software protection methods required by programme content owners.

An HDMI cable is required in order to get a High Definition picture with Freeview|HDTM.

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Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#239519 28-Jul-2009 00:24

Regs: Consider a car....

Thats a good idea.

The car analogy is that a married couple buy a 5 seater family car for when they have children. When they do have children they find the children don't actually fit in the back seats beacuse they are not the width that the dealer lead them to believe.

Was the car properly promoted to the propsective parents? Was the car fit for the purpose intended?

Just because the seats looked wide enough does not mean they were wide enough.

dickytim

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#239533 28-Jul-2009 07:33

no I don't work for Sony.

sbiddle

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#239584 28-Jul-2009 10:25

Hinko:
tonyhughes: The standards are there, Freeview COULD support HD over component if they chose to, but they don't.

Interesting isn't it, why do Freeview New Zealand Standards enforce HD over HDMI? What is in it for them? Surely they want to maximise uptake of Freeview in NZ? After all, it is FREEview. So why set this standard?

Is it about their free choice - or more about their being persuaded?

You will probably be aware the expectation is the ICT flag will be turned on globally potentially some time around 2012 if content owners get their way. This has been talked about for probably 5 or 6 years now since the HDMI started to appear.

The only reason countries such as the USA get HD content via component is that they had HDTV's long before the HDMI spec existed. Forcing HDMI to view HD content would have been a disaster.

Here in NZ because we have been so late to adopt HD broadcasting it was the ideal opportunity to futureproof systems so ensure that if ICT is enforced that people will still have HD content. If certified boxes allowed component output and this was then removed overnight it would be a nightmare. For this reason alone (and there is pressure from content owners to enforce HDMI+HDCP) it simply makes no sence at all for Freeview to not enforce HDMI only.

Freeview have done a very good job in NZ with futureproofing - even Australia seems to have lost the plot with their Freeview rollout. Any Freeview capable boxes or TV's need to support H.264 for futureproofing but don't need to support MHEG5 even though MHEG5 is the "official" EPG. This means there are already boxes appearing that have H.264 support and no MHEG5 so people are using the EIT EPG which offers far fewer features and lacks any support for features such as Red Button.

RustyGonad

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#239591 28-Jul-2009 10:31

Hinko:
Regs: Consider a car....

Thats a good idea.

The car analogy is that a married couple buy a 5 seater family car for when they have children. When they do have children they find the children don't actually fit in the back seats beacuse they are not the width that the dealer lead them to believe.

Was the car properly promoted to the propsective parents? Was the car fit for the purpose intended?

Just because the seats looked wide enough does not mean they were wide enough.

Maybe you should have measured up the seats before you bought the car, rather than measuring it up afterwards.

Most other people who looked at the car you bought would have regarded it as a lemon... 2006 wasn't that long ago, there were some very very nice 720p and 1080p LCD and Plasma cars around, the people who bought those I'm guessing are very happy with them... carting their families around with ease...

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#239955 28-Jul-2009 21:42

RustyGonad:
Hinko:
Regs: Consider a car....

Thats a good idea.

The car analogy is that a married couple buy a 5 seater family car for when they have children. When they do have children they find the children don't actually fit in the back seats beacuse they are not the width that the dealer lead them to believe.

Was the car properly promoted to the propsective parents? Was the car fit for the purpose intended?

Just because the seats looked wide enough does not mean they were wide enough.

Maybe you should have measured up the seats before you bought the car, rather than measuring it up afterwards.

Most other people who looked at the car you bought would have regarded it as a lemon... 2006 wasn't that long ago, there were some very very nice 720p and 1080p LCD and Plasma cars around, the people who bought those I'm guessing are very happy with them... carting their families around with ease...

RustyGonad, regarding prudent measuring, in principle you are of course entirely correct. However I need some help from you, if you will?

Please remind us how might one measure unborn children?

May I remind you of probably the most the appropriate and significant yardstick measuring instruments in this case - the Freeview specification, was not to my knowledge publicly available before its pdf datestamp that is 9-12-2008. Before this the rumour mill was growing however a yardstick is a standard, not mere rumours. Please clarify for us how an average member of the public might reliably measure using this information before that date?

In the absence of the yardsticks and children one purchased relying on the reputation of the manufacturer and the printed promises they made. In the case of future protection I cannot see how anything might be future protected for anything less than the warranty period. If you can, please explain how this might be.

There has been some acknowledgement in this thread about non CRT screens also. Perhaps a little less guessing and a little more robust thought might be appropriate here?

The car analogy is extensible; when I find the time I plan to clarify this.

Finally the good thing about lemons is that while they are within warranty there is a commitment from the manufacturer to fix or replace any lemons.

Talkiet

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#239960 28-Jul-2009 21:59

Hinko:
Finally the good thing about lemons is that while they are within warranty there is a commitment from the manufacturer to fix or replace any lemons.

There's nothing wrong with what you bought. It just turned out technology went down a different path.

You really should stop your whinging and just deal with it.

Your grammar and spelling are still top notch, but your arguments appear to now be based more on a sense of entitlement than any solid rational grounding.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Hinko

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Ultimate Geek

#240444 30-Jul-2009 08:45

I note today that Sony's Bluray specification pages (referenced earlier) for "Blu-ray Output" have now changed to:

576i / 576p (50Hz) via component ;
576i / 576p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p (50Hz) via HDMI

They had said:

480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p via component ;
576i / 576p / 720p / 1080i / 1080p via HDMI

While it is good to see the information corrected for consumers and that the 50Hz clarification is appropriately included, it is also disappointing that it was incorrect in the first place.

Assuming the new information to be correct, one might observe that the previous component information was 100% incorrect!

I still can find no reference to ICT and how that benefits (?) the Bluray consumer.

It is particularly interesting that there is now no longer reference to 1080i or 720p over component at all, even though in some circumstances the manuals suggest (apart from fine print circumstances) 720p and 1080i work fine.

sbiddle

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#240450 30-Jul-2009 08:54

Hinko: I still can find no reference to ICT and how that benefits (?) the Bluray consumer.

That's because ICT doesn't benefit the consumer. It will inconvenience the consumer.

There is still no official word but it is expected that come 2012 the moratorium in place that enables HD playback from BluRay discs via component will be dropped and that the ICT flag will be enabled on all media and HDTV programming.

If this happens people who have Blu Ray players hooked up via component would lose the ability to view HD content unless they use HDMI.

sbiddle

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#240451 30-Jul-2009 08:57

Hinko:

May I remind you of probably the most the appropriate and significant yardstick measuring instruments in this case - the Freeview specification, was not to my knowledge publicly available before its pdf datestamp that is 9-12-2008. Before this the rumour mill was growing however a yardstick is a standard, not mere rumours. Please clarify for us how an average member of the public might reliably measure using this information before that date?

Freeview specifications were available well before this date. Infact the specs for both DVB-T and DVB-S specs were very much decided upon by ~mid 2006 when Freeview was officially announced.

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#240454 30-Jul-2009 09:01

sbiddle:
Hinko: I still can find no reference to ICT and how that benefits (?) the Bluray consumer.

That's because ICT doesn't benefit the consumer. It will inconvenience the consumer.

In the very least!

Is the consumer made reasonably and adequately aware of the potential inconvenience the consumer is purchasing?

There is still no official word but it is expected that come 2012 the moratorium in place that enables HD playback from BluRay discs via component will be dropped and that the ICT flag will be enabled on all media and HDTV programming.

I have heard suggestion from sources that should be reliable that ICT may apply to broadcasts as well however I am not sure about that. In referring to "HDTV programming" it seems you also expect that.

Indeed it was suggested that it may be happening with paid for broadcasts currently?

Does anyone know or have the kit to test?

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