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91 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 195362 11-Feb-2009 17:44
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sbiddle:
Microsoft will not be "fixing" the EPG because they have no plans to fully support MHEG5.

The only way you will get an EPG in Windows 7 will be to use a DVB-S source or use external applications to import an XML based EPG from the web.

I am still confused about the guide for DVB-T, is there 2 guides that are transmitted with Freeview DVB-T, The now and next guides being EIT and the full 8day guide MHEG5? Is this correct?
A guy from the MS ehome team emailed me after I posted issues on thegreenbutton.com regarding the issues with DVB-S in Win7 and TV Pack, they are trying to fix the bug. Sweet!

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  Reply # 195365 11-Feb-2009 18:10
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nzwogboy:
sbiddle:
Microsoft will not be "fixing" the EPG because they have no plans to fully support MHEG5.

The only way you will get an EPG in Windows 7 will be to use a DVB-S source or use external applications to import an XML based EPG from the web.

I am still confused about the guide for DVB-T, is there 2 guides that are transmitted with Freeview DVB-T, The now and next guides being EIT and the full 8day guide MHEG5?


Correct.

Only Now + Next information is transmitted via the DVB EIT tables. The full 8 day EPG is only available via MHEG5.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 195373 11-Feb-2009 18:26
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madad: sure am. will post the exact specs when i get home, but yeah i'm using onboard ati graphics hardware.. says 1080p on the motherboard box, but doesn't mention h264. Perhaps time to add a full blown graphics card? Is it worth the investment?


Adding to the other replies... do yourself a favor and get a cheap NVidia 9400GT. I'd get one if I didn't use my current card for gaming!

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  Reply # 195383 11-Feb-2009 19:48
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There's more than just now/next in the DVB-T EIT. But it depends on the service (what you'd likely call a channel e.g. TV3). And it not much more than now/next, sometimes its four hours, or eight hours of good data and then the rest have program titles of dots.

Media Center wont be extracting the MHEG guide in Windows 7 and its unclear if we ever would. The listings format in the MHEG is arbitary. Freeview could change the format at any time in the future and break any such loader in Media Center. It may be possible for the community to use the iTV SDK apis to extract the MHEG listings.





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Master Geek


  Reply # 195388 11-Feb-2009 20:35
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mikehayton:The listings format in the MHEG is arbitary. Freeview could change the format at any time in the future and break any such loader in Media Center.


Would that not also break all the televisions and PVR devices sold in New Zealand that are "Freeview certified". I presume the certification is largely built around their ability to decipher the MHEG listings. Even if those devices had updateable firmware, their market is not a group of people capable of doing that imho. To change the format would be to Freeview basically giving everyone to Sky.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 195396 11-Feb-2009 20:59
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I have ben trialling the Beta guide importer from Nial on xpmediacentre.com.au and it look slike the answer to our prayers.

I am importing data from XMLTVNZ into 7MC and looks good so far.

Wal

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 195401 11-Feb-2009 21:18
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The guys at epgstream.net are also very close to a solution (by the weekend by the sounds of it).

Without wanting to discount the work being done by Niall, the guys at epgstream.net look like the have some excellent stuff around the program/channel logos, and well - they appear to be very price friendly...

I think it terms of Windows Media Center, MHEG is a dead horse.  The "download" solutions will provide content which is every bit as detailed, and much more feature rich.  They will also be scriptable ie completely hands off, and will be alot easier to set up than the old Bladerunner based solutons.

For anyone using DVBSBridge for Sky, they are very close to a solution which will deliver the entire guide on every channel ie a complete EIT solution, which will once again provide a hands off solution to those of us that use Sky.  Freeview channels will be able to also be incorporated into the EIT stream.


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  Reply # 195423 11-Feb-2009 22:55
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limegreen: Would that not also break all the televisions and PVR devices sold in New Zealand that are "Freeview certified".


Not really, because they are not extracting the information. They are just running the MHEG5 app.






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Master Geek


  Reply # 195471 12-Feb-2009 09:55
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Anyone else having audio issues? I get a weird (and quite subtle, but still noticeable) jittery sound on live tv and divx content.. but only sometimes.. and it seems to come and go through a movie.

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  Reply # 195504 12-Feb-2009 12:28
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RustyGonad:

The guys at epgstream.net are also very close to a solution (by the weekend by the sounds of it).

Without wanting to discount the work being done by Niall, the guys at epgstream.net look like the have some excellent stuff around the program/channel logos, and well - they appear to be very price friendly...

I think it terms of Windows Media Center, MHEG is a dead horse.  The "download" solutions will provide content which is every bit as detailed, and much more feature rich.  They will also be scriptable ie completely hands off, and will be alot easier to set up than the old Bladerunner based solutons.

For anyone using DVBSBridge for Sky, they are very close to a solution which will deliver the entire guide on every channel ie a complete EIT solution, which will once again provide a hands off solution to those of us that use Sky.  Freeview channels will be able to also be incorporated into the EIT stream.



Sorry Rusty.  As usual I have tons of questions...

1. Where will the guide source originate for the EPGStream solution?  XMLTVNZ?
2. How would you stop Media Center from overwriting the downloaded guide with over the air data?
3. I talked to Fredx21 over at DVBlogic about the DVBDream al la carte solution, and he indicated it would be a little while off as he is busy working on other things.  Have you heard an update?
4. Which solution would you see as the best, an download solution or the DVBSBridge solution?

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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 195540 12-Feb-2009 14:11
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Sorry Rusty.  As usual I have tons of questions...

1. Where will the guide source originate for the EPGStream solution?  XMLTVNZ?
2. How would you stop Media Center from overwriting the downloaded guide with over the air data?
3. I talked to Fredx21 over at DVBlogic about the DVBDream al la carte solution, and he indicated it would be a little while off as he is busy working on other things.  Have you heard an update?
4. Which solution would you see as the best, an download solution or the DVBSBridge solution?


1.  Sounds like the source can either be the original EIT stream, or a XML source.  Personally I'd like to use the original EIT source, as it includes up to the minute updates - which Sky often use on live events.
2.  I think you will either use the download option or the DVBSbridge option ie not both.  Guide source it currently selectable per channel so you would default to one.
3.  Could be a while like you say - I'm chasing the download option for now and will move to the al la carte solution once its available.

The biggest advantage with al la carte is that its standalone and should be live.  Download will be nice, but will always be 24 hours behind.

For the download option I wouldn't use XMLTVNZ anymore.  You can either scape it yourself directly from DVBDream (will output an XML file), or download from epg.pvr.geek.nz.  Much easier and much more reliable than XMLTVNZ.

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  Reply # 195541 12-Feb-2009 14:14
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Hmm, thanks yet again Rusty.

All I can say now is bring it all on!  I want to get away from my very messy workaround.

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  Reply # 195572 12-Feb-2009 16:58
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limegreen:
mikehayton:The listings format in the MHEG is arbitary. Freeview could change the format at any time in the future and break any such loader in Media Center.


Would that not also break all the televisions and PVR devices sold in New Zealand that are "Freeview certified". I presume the certification is largely built around their ability to decipher the MHEG listings. Even if those devices had updateable firmware, their market is not a group of people capable of doing that imho. To change the format would be to Freeview basically giving everyone to Sky.



So first a disclaimer - Im no MHEG expert - Im still 'ramping up' on this. But I've been discussing this with the resident media center MHEG5 expert.

To answer your question: No, because as well as transmitting the listings in a raw file format, the MHEG application is also transmitted at the same time. This application knows how to read the raw file format and render it as a grid on the screen. So the broadcaster could change the format and update the application. 

Media Center and other devices with MHEG5 engines could still run the transmitted application, but as an engine, it has no concept of what application is really doing - it could be showing listings, airport timetables, or anything.

MHEG5 isnt really all that standard. The variations are known as profiles. I think Media Center supports the MHEG5 1.06 profile. Im not sure what profile is being transmitted in New Zealand. And I dont know if Media Center in Win7 can currently run the guide MHEG app being transmitted. I suspect it isnt. But we'll need to get an example of the transmission stream before we can tell why.




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  Reply # 195574 12-Feb-2009 17:07
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RustyGonad:


Sorry Rusty.  As usual I have tons of questions...

1. Where will the guide source originate for the EPGStream solution?  XMLTVNZ?
2. How would you stop Media Center from overwriting the downloaded guide with over the air data?
3. I talked to Fredx21 over at DVBlogic about the DVBDream al la carte solution, and he indicated it would be a little while off as he is busy working on other things.  Have you heard an update?
4. Which solution would you see as the best, an download solution or the DVBSBridge solution?


1.  Sounds like the source can either be the original EIT stream, or a XML source.  Personally I'd like to use the original EIT source, as it includes up to the minute updates - which Sky often use on live events.
2.  I think you will either use the download option or the DVBSbridge option ie not both.  Guide source it currently selectable per channel so you would default to one.
3.  Could be a while like you say - I'm chasing the download option for now and will move to the al la carte solution once its available.

The biggest advantage with al la carte is that its standalone and should be live.  Download will be nice, but will always be 24 hours behind.

For the download option I wouldn't use XMLTVNZ anymore.  You can either scape it yourself directly from DVBDream (will output an XML file), or download from epg.pvr.geek.nz.  Much easier and much more reliable than XMLTVNZ.


For 2)

The EIT listings will be merged in with the downloaded listings. The EIT data is believed over the downloaded data. The entries with '.' (dots) should be ignored.  We're still working out some issues with missed recordings with inband data.

If the inband data ends up being more trouble than its worth (or in the case of Australia - less trustworthy) then in the Edit Listings page for the Channel's settings there's a button called "disable inband". When set, this will disable all inband listing merging for that channel (so you'll just have downloaded listings in that channel and any inband listings seen will be ignored).

For 4)

The downloaded has the potential to be better. The EIT listings are pretty limited. It basically has a title field and a description. No episode title - that's normally concaternated into the title. The downloaded format has more concepts that you can expressed. e.g. grouping programs into Series or Seasons, identifing repeat airings of specific Programs, graphics, having specific people and identifing which programs they contributed to.




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Master Geek


  Reply # 195590 12-Feb-2009 19:23
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madad: Anyone else having audio issues? I get a weird (and quite subtle, but still noticeable) jittery sound on live tv and divx content.. but only sometimes.. and it seems to come and go through a movie.


Seems I answered my own question - this is a known issue with 5.1 output through spdif. They recommend setting output on the xbox to stereo, in case anyone's wondering.

Now, of more importance, how come it forgets all my scheduled recordings every day?? Very annoying!

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