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162 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 309215 19-Mar-2010 16:42
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Forget all this angst. Just send that following letter;

Dear Mr Big Shot Lawyer

In response to your take down demand I have shifted the application to a host in Australia.

It is established law that the use of the application and the dissemination of its output is legal in Australia.

Yours etc

4764 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 79

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  Reply # 309234 19-Mar-2010 18:14
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gb: Hi reven

Disclosures:


  1. IAAL.



  2. I am a Sky TV shareholder



  3. I have written about the IceTV case (a blog post of mine was referenced earlier, here it is again).  [

[lots of interesting legal stuff deleted here since you can read the original posting



All this tell me is

1. The legal case is murky
2. Sky is probably thinking that a legal letter from a large corporation is going to achieve their goals (which it's likely to) irrespective of the actual legal situation which really has to be resolved in court since it's unclear either way
3. He could call their bluff and refuse to do anything and they could take him to court. But the answer is why would they? And if Reven has to defend his situation can he do it with legal aid? Are you allowed to defend a civil suit without a lawyer?

So as I noted before, Reven should do as they ask since really, there is no benefit to contesting this or refusing to comply.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


My Google+ page 

 

 

 

https://plus.google.com/+laurencechiu

 

 


 
 
 
 


1598 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 309247 19-Mar-2010 19:25
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Go Hawks!
814 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 40

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  Reply # 309252 19-Mar-2010 19:43
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codyc1515: Hmm, www.codycooper.co.nz/epg/...


I understood you have permission from the respective companies for that website? 

285 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 309276 19-Mar-2010 21:03
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reven:
buzzy: Slightly off-topic, but I've just had a read of the Ts&Cs at Sky's website. They do specifically mention that you cannot use any automated extraction of programming information:

Programme Listing information:  In relation to the programme listing information on this website, and without limiting the foregoing, you may not remove, copy or extract any of the programme listing information by any automated means or exhibit, permit or facilitate the viewing of any or all of programme listing information in a public viewing area or via the internet or any other means of communication.  You may only view the programme listing information.  If you wish to make commercial use of the programme listing information you must obtain a separate licence by contacting SKY at web@skytv.co.nz.


but since xmltvnz doesnt use skytv.co.nz as a source, surely that has no relevance.


Exactly, it's BS and would not stand under legal scrutiny IMHO

What they are doing is highly unethical -their intent is simply to shaft any competition (no matter how peripheral) so that all roads lead to Sky.

At the very least, you should still be able to extract all "free to air" EPG data, I simply cannot understand how Sky has any legal leverage in this regard.

Also, at the end of the day, this is not going to stop anything.  It just changes the way we play the game.




"There is no way to Peace -Peace is the Way" (A. J. Muste)

 


536 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 131


  Reply # 309316 20-Mar-2010 00:35
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Just done my little bit and alerted Fair go, Close up and Campbell Live to Sky's Bullying.
Nothing may happen but tried to portray this as Big company up against small guys and provided a few links.

Its a shame no-one can afford to take Sky on.
Thanks for all your work Reven. I never used you program but it seemed great , like the rest.

My 2 cents worth is if you are really paranoid about lawyers coming after you, set up a company with the code as its asset and then get the company to give the code away. $160 for that slightly more piece of mind. Puts that little extra distance between you and the lawyers.

27 posts

Geek


  Reply # 309321 20-Mar-2010 07:34
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Happy to donate again if u want to set up the company. I'm sure we could all chip in.

481 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 309332 20-Mar-2010 10:11
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Quidam:At the very least, you should still be able to extract all "free to air" EPG data, I simply cannot understand how Sky has any legal leverage in this regard.

As Sky are the owners of Prime TV they certainly have some rights in respect of that free-to-air channel.

481 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 309333 20-Mar-2010 10:21
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Reading through this thread a number of people have been saying "Call Sky's bluff"*, not surprising I suppose as it's easy to tell someone else to take a risk. So far I haven't seen anyone step up and suggest that they personally take over running Reven's website so that they can "Call Sky's bluff" - I certainly wouldn't take on the risk.

* To be fair, far more people have said that while they belive Sky are wrong, they would avoid a battle with the company.

285 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 309335 20-Mar-2010 10:30
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Deev8: Reading through this thread a number of people have been saying "Call Sky's bluff"*, not surprising I suppose as it's easy to tell someone else to take a risk. So far I haven't seen anyone step up and suggest that they personally take over running Reven's website so that they can "Call Sky's bluff" - I certainly wouldn't take on the risk.

* To be fair, far more people have said that while they belive Sky are wrong, they would avoid a battle with the company.


Actually I haven't seen anyone say that.  What I've seen is people saying Sky would most likely loose the legal battle.  The point is, that's rather irrelevent, because they are the ones wearing the big stomping boots.

My view is that there are surely ways to circumvent the situation, and to a large extent, that is exactly what reven is doing.  With that being the case, exactly what has Sky achieved except ensuring they piss off future potential customers with their bullyboy tactics.  It's definately outraged me and I'd simply never consider signing up with them again, even if they are almost the only game in town (which is exactly what they want).




"There is no way to Peace -Peace is the Way" (A. J. Muste)

 


285 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 309336 20-Mar-2010 10:32
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Deev8:
Quidam:At the very least, you should still be able to extract all "free to air" EPG data, I simply cannot understand how Sky has any legal leverage in this regard.

As Sky are the owners of Prime TV they certainly have some rights in respect of that free-to-air channel.


Fine, I hardly watch prime anyway




"There is no way to Peace -Peace is the Way" (A. J. Muste)

 




3278 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 601

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  Reply # 309339 20-Mar-2010 10:42
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kiwidoc: Happy to donate again if u want to set up the company. I'm sure we could all chip in.


nah im just going to make xmltvnz a open source project on google code and leave the config file up to the community.

ill update xmltvnz to allow you to specify where to check for a update in the settings file. 

then if sky goes after the person hosting the config file and that gets take down another host can go up.  or better yet get someone from overseas hosting the file, then sky cant really do much about it.

in the long run i dont think sky can really do much, its the nature of the internet, people will always find a way around it. 

i think they're just wasting their time and money.

appletv ftw :P

162 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 309346 20-Mar-2010 11:14
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I am not advocating that Reven and others in his situation become martyrs for the cause. They should act in their own best interests.

To use a poker analogy they should not assume that a scary letter from a lawyer means that Sky holds all the aces and they should throw in their hand. They should not assume that the cards that they hold in their hand are worthless and will not win them the deal.

They should play a cool hand. As the character played by Paul Newman in the film Cool hand Luke says, "Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand".

Reven and others have more than nothin' in their hand so their chances of success if they play a cool hand are pretty good.

Reven and other have no reason to not play this out. If it all gets too scary they can capitulate on the courthouse steps.

Make Sky show their cards.



3278 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 601

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  Reply # 309348 20-Mar-2010 11:21
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xmltvnz code is now up on google code, just need to make a couple of changes to it and ill post a new build on google code (need to change it to check a user configured rss feed for updates)

1598 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 309406 20-Mar-2010 17:48
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wazzageek:
codyc1515: Hmm, www.codycooper.co.nz/epg/...


I understood you have permission from the respective companies for that website??


Yes, because I would be a fool not to.

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