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306 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 60672 30-Apr-2010 04:43
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Yesterday I received one of these take down notices from Sky's lawyer.

They're demanding I remove the djkxml utility from www.gbpvr.com. I suggested they should contact it's author to ask for it to be removed (since it's nothing to do with me, and I've never used it), but either way, I'm sure it's in it's last few days on gbpvr.com.

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306 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325055 30-Apr-2010 05:21
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I looked into what 'djkxml' stuff is on gbpvr.com. Not a lot. I'm guessing their main beef is with the djkxml wiki page at http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Utility/Djkxml, which describes djkxml and how to use it. It doesnt actually contain the utility though. That is hosted by the author himself on some other server, and just provides a download link on the wiki page.

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  Reply # 325058 30-Apr-2010 06:29
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Very interesting move to Sky.

Obviously even talking about how to get an EPG is now illegal in their books!

Out of curiosity who is their law firm?


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325059 30-Apr-2010 06:31
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Buddle Findlay in Auckland.

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306 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325061 30-Apr-2010 06:37
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sbiddle: Very interesting move to Sky.

Obviously even talking about how to get an EPG is now illegal in their books!
Yeah, many places including geekzone.co.nz would be just as guilty as gbpvr.com by this definition. ie, there is posts here with links to applications capable of downloading Sky listings, and descriptions of how to use those applications in batch files etc.

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  Reply # 325068 30-Apr-2010 07:50
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Hi there, any chance of publishing the take down letter? (Or emailing it to me at thomas@techliberty.org.nz )

I'm quite keen to find examples of companies abusing this. 

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  Reply # 325093 30-Apr-2010 09:00
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Pretty sure you can't stop people from talking about how to do stuff. (That isn't illegal. Is getting EPG's illegal?)

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  Reply # 325096 30-Apr-2010 09:02
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Distributing the EPG from a website would be illegal, since they claim it's copyrighted material.

Discussions of if this is a good business move or not not in this topic please.





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  Reply # 325102 30-Apr-2010 09:14
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kyhwana2: Pretty sure you can't stop people from talking about how to do stuff. (That isn't illegal. Is getting EPG's illegal?)


The whole issue is a very complex one.

Common sence would suggest there is nothing illegal about developing software to screenscrape an EPG.

The end user who uses that software to screenscrape a website for EPG details could well be breaking the law if the terms and conditions of the website say that it may not be used for this purpose.


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  Reply # 325115 30-Apr-2010 09:25
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freitasm: Distributing the EPG from a website would be illegal, since they claim it's copyrighted material.


Hmm, but that's not the case here, is it? (Since it's just an app that puts together a local copy of the EPG. At least that's my understanding)

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  Reply # 325143 30-Apr-2010 09:58
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Skys terms of use of their website is very explicit about using the data or even storing a local copy.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 325145 30-Apr-2010 10:03
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Tel69: Skys terms of use of their website is very explicit about using the data or even storing a local copy.
Yeah, but why should gbpvr.com get a take down notice? Its not hosting the listings, or the utility that downloads the listing from the sky website.

All gbpvr.com has is a page with a description of the djkxml utility, and link to the author's server to download the djkxml utility.

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  Reply # 325150 30-Apr-2010 10:19
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree with you.
gbpvr.com is not the one who is hosting the offending software nor are you affilated with it.
Sky if they want to continue this should be going after the author and not gbpvr.com. But considering those people are not very technically inclined as a general rule, they probably have falsely assumed you are hosting it.

It's a very bad decision on skys part to do it, and their terms and conditions are rubbish as my browser has already cached a local copy of their flash TV listing's.
They should be embracing this, not trying to smash it to peices with a hammer as it helps their subscribers.

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  Reply # 325151 30-Apr-2010 10:22
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Tel69: Skys terms of use of their website is very explicit about using the data or even storing a local copy.


And that's all fine. Except for the fact NO application that screenscrapes data uses the Sky website. Nobody is cacheing Sky's website or even going near it

Most of these takedown notices have been addressed at sites that are hosting data that is extracted from Sky's own EIT EPG that is broadcast as as part of their DVB broadcast. This starts to raise a whole new set of questions about whether it's legal to republish or even use something for your own use that that in effect in the public domain once it's been broadcast.







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  Reply # 325161 30-Apr-2010 10:37
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Sky are certainly pushing the barrow right over the edge on this one...

The only thing that comes close to infringing that I can see is the use of the Channel names Sky Sport XXX etc etc etc ie in word form only. Even the other names such as Disney etc are not the intellectual property of Sky, and they would have great difficulty enforcing IP rights over these names in New Zealand, in the context provided. I'd suggest the author changes the channel names or references to them and tell Buddle Finlay to p**s off...

Does anyone have a legal opinion for certain that says it is an offence in New Zealand to possess or distribute software, which has the possibility to be used to commit such an act as caching of content - remember its only caching cause with 7 days you have no reference to the original material?

If such an opinion holds validity then IE, Google Chrome, Safari etc etc etc are all covered under the same offence (assuming one exists, which I don't believe it does), along with any other piece of software that caches any content - this includes a hell of a lot of software. Simply by viewing any of the sites which hold the guide you in effect commit the same act.

Its about time someone called their bluff...


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  Reply # 325175 30-Apr-2010 10:59
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TV listings are sold to publishers, News papers pay $1000;s for the rights to publish. That's what sky is protecting.

Scrapping from sites that pay Sky for the content... yeah I can see how that could be wrong.

Scrapping the EPG from the airways, now that should not be a problem, republishing though...

I too think TV stations should be embracing this dissemination of information as it will make it easier for their views to view the programs. Which is really the #1 goal of a TV station.

Will it come to a point that you can ask a friend what's ok TV because they could get there internet cut off.

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