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Topic # 110012 1-Oct-2012 15:12
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Hey guys.

I'm wanting to get UFB installed at my place - my current ISP is Snap (and I'm happy with them, no intent to move on).  The problem is that I'm a bit confused as to the finer points of installation.  This post is a bit rambling because there's a bunch of stuff I'm confused on, and I can't find a lot of literature that directly addresses it.

The main challenge I've got is that my house is an older rambling one from 1912.  Despite being made predominantly from wood, the walls are as an effective WiFi blocker as if they were made from 3 inch think uranium.  My current setup uses a wired backbone with some Apple Airport Express units as local WiFi distribution points - works great.  Any single WiFi base station solution has failed.

Snap are proposing to distribute a Fritz box as a part of the solution - this box has a gigabit switch on the back (7390, I'm referring to - http://www.fritzbox.eu/en/products/FRITZBox_Fon_WLAN_7390/index.php?tab=1) as well as a dual-radio 2.4GHz/5GHz 802.11n network.  Sweet! So it'd be cool if I could use that as a wireless distribution point as well.  The Snap helpdesk can't really help me though - they can't confirm whether or not the Fritz box will behave well in a shared network topology (for example, alongside my existing AAE's).

Whilst we're on the Fritz, I'm a bit confused as to what the configuration will be in terms of free ports.  Like any aspiring technologist, the number of potentially wired devices in my house significantly exceeds 4.  I understand that the ONT unit will spit out an Ethernet port, and provide PPPoE for Snap (tagged as VLAN 10).  What I'm not clear on is which port on the Fritz box will accept that - the literature indicates that there's a DSL port (despite being an RJ45 connector), and doesn't seem to suggest this will take a standard Ethernet connection.

Based on the literature on Snap's UFB FAQ (http://www.snap.net.nz/support/content/3/73/en/what-is-ufb-faq.html), I'm guessing that they will bring in a block (/48) of IPv6 addresses on that VLAN, and be plugged into the LAN side of the device.  No firewall or router involved?  Or perhaps the Fritz box can apply firewall rules against traffic from that VLAN...?  This may imply that all other devices on that network segment need to be IPv6 capable (...and need their own FW?).

Finally, there's the Snap VoIP solution - it looks to be a standard SIP solution (http://www.snap.net.nz/support/content/5/75/en/snap-plus-_-voip-settings.html).  There's some magic in the Fritz box that allows the Fritz Fons to use it as a DECT base station.  I'm about 100% virginal when it comes to the relationship between DECT at VoIP, so I'm happy to leave it as "magic" and move on - but it does make me wonder how I might use non-Fritz handsets (if I found one I wanted).

There's probably a few of you who are both Snap and UFB customers...  And hopefully some of you have rolled your own.

1. Are there any home-rolled solutions without using the Fritz solution that work great, including VoIP?  Supporting VLAN tagging on PPPoE seems to be the key.
2. If I did go with their Fritz solution, will I be able to continue to extend my 5GHz 802.11n network as I do now (over the Ethernet backbone)?
3. Are there other handsets that are compatible with the SIP solution?  Or better ways of solving this?  Ultimately a couple of handsets in the house that ring on the same number is what I'm after.
4. Does the Fritz solution provide firewalling, or does each device need to firewall itself?
5. Does each device on the network need to support IPv6?

Thanks for reading all that!  I'm hoping someone here can help me out :)



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  Reply # 694282 1-Oct-2012 15:27
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The Fritz!box supports both DSL and WAN connectivity. It also has a built in firewall. I don't actually understand what you're meaning about a /48 subnet on the LAN port, nothing like this occurs as it's standard PPPoE over the WAN.

Any GAP compliant handset should work, as will any regular analogue phone. As for adding multiple AP's behind a gouter - this is a supported scenario with any wireless router, just give them all the same SSID and different channel numbers (remembering 1,6 and 11) and you'll be fine.



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  Reply # 694297 1-Oct-2012 15:41
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Thanks for the reply :)

sbiddle: The Fritz!box supports both DSL and WAN connectivity. It also has a built in firewall.


Ok - so I take this to mean that the "ADSL" port will take Ethernet from the OTN.  And firewall - sweet.

sbiddle:I don't actually understand what you're meaning about a /48 subnet on the LAN port, nothing like this occurs as it's standard PPPoE over the WAN.


That's from their web page on this, linked above.  What they say:

"All snap customers are assigned a dynamic /48 IPv6 address."

Reading that again, it might just mean a single address, but I don't understand the /48 in that context.

sbiddle:Any GAP compliant handset should work, as will any regular analogue phone. As for adding multiple AP's behind a router - this is a supported scenario with any wireless router, just give them all the same SSID and different channel numbers (remembering 1,6 and 11) and you'll be fine.


I asked on the wireless side because my existing wireless router (a D-Link) does not support this (even though it should) - I take this to be that "technology is imperfect" and I was hoping someone who'd done exactly this with the Fritz could confirm it worked.

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  Reply # 694299 1-Oct-2012 15:43
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Think of the fritzbox as just a router. On one side you have an interface facing the ISP on the other side you have an interface facing your home network.

Towards the ISP you need to be able to connect via PPPoE with a vlan tag. The fritzbox has support for this both by xDSL or over ethernet. Depending on the model fritzbox you will have either 2 or 4 gigabit ports, when you change the mode to use the WAN port (instead of the xDSL interface), one of these ports will be converted.

On the LAN side you need to make sure you have one device handing out DHCP, you can disable this on the fritzbox or on the airport express. For simplicities sake, I would say leave the fritzbox as the dhcp server.

The end result is that the airport express is simply acting as a wifi to ethernet bridge, and everything else functions as if you were simply plugged in or connected to the wifi on the fritz.


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  Reply # 694302 1-Oct-2012 15:44
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TactualRain: Thanks for the reply :)

sbiddle: The Fritz!box supports both DSL and WAN connectivity. It also has a built in firewall.


Ok - so I take this to mean that the "ADSL" port will take Ethernet from the OTN.  And firewall - sweet.


No, the ADSL port is a combination port between ADSL/VDSL and POTS. It does not support ethernet.



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  Reply # 694312 1-Oct-2012 15:57
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jbergler: Depending on the model fritzbox you will have either 2 or 4 gigabit ports, when you change the mode to use the WAN port (instead of the xDSL interface), one of these ports will be converted.


Ah!  Brilliant, thanks.  This was the missing piece of the puzzle.  So it'll leave me (in my example) with 3 spare gig ports for whatever else.


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  Reply # 694319 1-Oct-2012 16:05
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TactualRain: 

sbiddle:Any GAP compliant handset should work, as will any regular analogue phone. As for adding multiple AP's behind a router - this is a supported scenario with any wireless router, just give them all the same SSID and different channel numbers (remembering 1,6 and 11) and you'll be fine.


I asked on the wireless side because my existing wireless router (a D-Link) does not support this (even though it should) - I take this to be that "technology is imperfect" and I was hoping someone who'd done exactly this with the Fritz could confirm it worked.


You're clearly doing something wrong. If you're trying to use a router as an AP behind an existing router you need to disable DHCP and plug into the LAN port. If you want to access it again in the future assign it an IP on the same subnet your primary router is giving out.

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  Reply # 694329 1-Oct-2012 16:14
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/48 is a block of IPv6 addresses. There are probably trillions in a /48, however you should break it up into /64s for each subnet. You probably will only have one subnet.

Why dynamic though?! That sucks!







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  Reply # 694331 1-Oct-2012 16:16
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sbiddle: You're clearly doing something wrong. If you're trying to use a router as an AP behind an existing router you need to disable DHCP and plug into the LAN port. If you want to access it again in the future assign it an IP on the same subnet your primary router is giving out.


I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, no matter how clear it is to you :)

The existing router (a D-Link) when configured with the same SSID as the Airports will simply produce a second SSID of the same name.  It doesn't play well with others.  it's configured as the (sole) firewall / router in my existing DSL configuration.  The Airports are just configured as bridges, nothing particularly fancy about them, and are connected into the switch ports provided by the D-Link (using that D-Link's DHCP service).

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  Reply # 694372 1-Oct-2012 17:05
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Zeon: /48 is a block of IPv6 addresses. There are probably trillions in a /48, however you should break it up into /64s for each subnet. You probably will only have one subnet.

Why dynamic though?! That sucks!


I seem to recall SNAP promising static v6 subnet's back in Feb/March sometime. Something to do with billing?

Any updates on that, SNAP?


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  Reply # 694452 1-Oct-2012 19:19
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  Reply # 694478 1-Oct-2012 20:28
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Lets make this simple.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes own firewall
5. No

Register panasonic handsets to Frits Box for VOIP. Name your Fritz Wifi the same as your current Wifi network with the same password and it will extend your current network. I have a DLINK the Fritz and a Dualband Airport Express all on the same network name and password.



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  Reply # 694610 2-Oct-2012 08:33
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fellaintga: Lets make this simple.

I have a DLINK the Fritz and a Dualband Airport Express all on the same network name and password.


Outstanding, thank you.  That looks to be a pretty similar configuration to what I'll be going with.  Win!

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  Reply # 697191 6-Oct-2012 17:42
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I think the only change you'd need to make to your network is putting in the ONT and connecting the ont to the fritz box and then whatever ethernet devices you use to the fritz box. If you run out of ports you could always buy a switch i think they're pretty cheap.

but yeah, as mentioned above just make sure you set the wifi up with the same ssid and passwod on the fritz and all the apple devices should just continue to work how they did before.

and if you've got DHCP enabled on the fritz im not sure why you'd have to worry about an ip address range or whatever...





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