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n4

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  Reply # 786621 25-Mar-2013 12:43
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johnr:
n4:
johnr:
n4:
johnr:
n4: See here on TCF website. You need to report the phone independantly to each operator if you want it blacklisted completely. This includes Vodafone and Telecom. Any impression given to the contrary by retail staff is at best out of date and at worst intentionally misleading.


I can confirm Vodafone NZ and Telecom NZ do share EIR data, It will be great news when it's shared between all 3 carriers

John


Interesting, not what your reps are telling the TCF, clearly. Can you confirm the most recently reported (to Telecom) handset you have blacklisted in your EIR?


I'm not sharing any data from our EIR sorry, You will just have to take my word for it


That's not what I'm asking for. I want to know when you last updated Telecom (or loaded an update from Telecom) as part of this list sharing process. Any time in the last 12 months?


updates happen once a week or once every 2 weeks

Edit: It happened for a short time then stopped, I need to back track on this comment sorry


Thanks John.




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n4

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  Reply # 786625 25-Mar-2013 12:45
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sbiddle:
newbellies: Sorry for the loaded title (and message if I'm honest). A bit fired up after the breakin.

I'm a recent and unwilling subject of a breakin, which included a smartphone.  I didn't realise until now that Telecom and Vodafone have an arrangement where if a customer calls in and says "please block my phone from your networks, with IMEI # x", that the phone is now useless to anybody that wants to use that phone. Excellent.  That blocks things on Telecom and Vodafone.

...

fin


I wrote a blog post about this last year about the issue. http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/8192

The issue has been raised numerous times here in the past couple of years with people buying handsets marked as 2degrees only on Trademe and finding they won't work on Vodafone or Telecom.

The bigger issue 2degrees are going to face is how they deal with the bigger issue once they do shart sharing data - the stolen phones on their network now that will be be turned into bricks overnight.


May be time to update/correct that blog?




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  Reply # 786628 25-Mar-2013 12:50
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xpd:
sbiddle: 

The bigger issue 2degrees are going to face is how they deal with the bigger issue once they do shart sharing data - the stolen phones on their network now that will be be turned into bricks overnight.


I dont feel that it will be 2D problem at all - you run a risk when purchasing any 2nd hand item that its been stolen, and theres no guarantee the police/owner wont come knocking for it to be returned or in telco land, the device is rendered useless.




I agree.

If stolen phones have to get bicked then so be it. Its stolen property afterall.

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  Reply # 786629 25-Mar-2013 12:51
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xpd:
sbiddle: 

The bigger issue 2degrees are going to face is how they deal with the bigger issue once they do shart sharing data - the stolen phones on their network now that will be be turned into bricks overnight.


I dont feel that it will be 2D problem at all - you run a risk when purchasing any 2nd hand item that its been stolen, and theres no guarantee the police/owner wont come knocking for it to be returned or in telco land, the device is rendered useless.




It will be a problem for 2Degrees because all of a sudden they will lose 'x' thousand customers who were previously spending, say, $$$ every month with 2Degrees on their stolen phones and will now be spending $0 once their phone stops working.
They will, of course, have to buy a new (not stolen) phone and will start spending with that, but if the only reason they chose 2D in the first place was because they could use the stolen phone, then they might not stay with them once that is no longer possible.

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  Reply # 786644 25-Mar-2013 13:08
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johnr:
n4:
johnr:
n4:
johnr:
n4: See here on TCF website. You need to report the phone independantly to each operator if you want it blacklisted completely. This includes Vodafone and Telecom. Any impression given to the contrary by retail staff is at best out of date and at worst intentionally misleading.


I can confirm Vodafone NZ and Telecom NZ do share EIR data, It will be great news when it's shared between all 3 carriers

John


Interesting, not what your reps are telling the TCF, clearly. Can you confirm the most recently reported (to Telecom) handset you have blacklisted in your EIR?


I'm not sharing any data from our EIR sorry, You will just have to take my word for it


That's not what I'm asking for. I want to know when you last updated Telecom (or loaded an update from Telecom) as part of this list sharing process. Any time in the last 12 months?


updates happen once a week or once every 2 weeks

Edit: It happened for a short time then stopped, I need to back track on this comment sorry


Johnr has now confirmed that none of the New Zealand operators currently share IMEI lists.

@sbiddle - I guess your concenrns about what happens when list sharing starts would apply equally well to VF and TC. Maybe time for you to update the blog post now that the current situation is clear. The whole thing about 2degrees only phones on trademe due to them being blocked on VF and TC through list sharing is probably an urban myth - I suppose they could have been reported stolen separately to TC and VF, but then you can report to 2d too.

To the OP - I can understand your frustration but it looks like that should be directed three ways to each of the operators.

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  Reply # 786646 25-Mar-2013 13:12
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A project is already in place and getting worked on between Vodafone / Telecom / 2Degrees to get EIR sharing so it's all automated instead of the old manual process,

John

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  Reply # 786659 25-Mar-2013 13:37
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NonprayingMantis:

It will be a problem for 2Degrees because all of a sudden they will lose 'x' thousand customers who were previously spending, say, $$$ every month with 2Degrees on their stolen phones and will now be spending $0 once their phone stops working.
They will, of course, have to buy a new (not stolen) phone and will start spending with that, but if the only reason they chose 2D in the first place was because they could use the stolen phone, then they might not stay with them once that is no longer possible.




True, but would they want to be known as the "stolen device friendly" network/business ?






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  Reply # 786668 25-Mar-2013 13:56
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Skolink: Is it possible to have the IMEI flagged (but not blocked) so that if it pops up on the network the police can use call record to find the new 'owner'?


I think this is a great question. 

I do know that at least Telecom is willing to tell me if that IMEI is active anywhere on their network. If it were, I could then relay the information on to police.   

Called up 2 degrees again, and as before, they stated they have no mechanism to block phones form their network. Said that they can only block sim cards.  They were also unable to tell me if my phone was active on their network.

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  Reply # 786673 25-Mar-2013 14:08
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Skolink: Is it possible to have the IMEI flagged (but not blocked) so that if it pops up on the network the police can use call record to find the new 'owner'?


The police are already able to do this but they require a warrant.

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  Reply # 786674 25-Mar-2013 14:09
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newbellies:
Skolink: Is it possible to have the IMEI flagged (but not blocked) so that if it pops up on the network the police can use call record to find the new 'owner'?


I think this is a great question. 

I do know that at least Telecom is willing to tell me if that IMEI is active anywhere on their network. If it were, I could then relay the information on to police.   

Called up 2 degrees again, and as before, they stated they have no mechanism to block phones form their network. Said that they can only block sim cards.  They were also unable to tell me if my phone was active on their network.


This is due to privacy concerns. I am disappointed that Telecom would disclose that information to you. File a report with the police and have them track down the thief.

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  Reply # 786679 25-Mar-2013 14:18
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johnr: A project is already in place and getting worked on between Vodafone / Telecom / 2Degrees to get EIR sharing so it's all automated instead of the old manual process,

John


You mean the old "let's email each other an Excel spreadsheet" process? Good that it will be automated...






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  Reply # 786680 25-Mar-2013 14:22
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newbellies:
Skolink: Is it possible to have the IMEI flagged (but not blocked) so that if it pops up on the network the police can use call record to find the new 'owner'?


I think this is a great question. 

I do know that at least Telecom is willing to tell me if that IMEI is active anywhere on their network. If it were, I could then relay the information on to police.   

Called up 2 degrees again, and as before, they stated they have no mechanism to block phones form their network. Said that they can only block sim cards.  They were also unable to tell me if my phone was active on their network.


Years ago (I am talking 2000 Nokia 7110) I lost my phone in Auckland. I was back then a Vodafone customer and had phone insurance with them. So I called them up to ask for my phone to be replaced under the insurance.

Instead I got a phone call a couple of days later telling me they had found my phone. Basically they tracked the IMEI to a new SIM. The new "user" was on account, so the insurance company sent someone around his place with a cop, and asked for the phone back. The guy handed it with no questions asked and I got my phone back a few days later.

That was twelve years ago. Do they do this kind of stuff now? I don't know, but it can be done (if the new user has an account with address, etc, etc).

As said above though, report to the police and let them do their work.





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  Reply # 786681 25-Mar-2013 14:23
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wibble:  The whole thing about 2degrees only phones on trademe due to them being blocked on VF and TC through list sharing is probably an urban myth - I suppose they could have been reported stolen separately to TC and VF, but then you can report to 2d too.


It's far from an urban myth, it's a real world reality. There have been numerous posts on here from people who have purchased phones (often from Trademe marked as 2degrees only) and found them only working on 2degrees, and not on VF or XT. 2degrees blocking devices is only a recent thing, they previously had no ability to do this. One of the reasons I wrote my blog post a year ago was to highlight the issue.

One other thing to be aware of (unless Telecom have changed their policy) is that phones will be blocked in you default on a subsidised handset contract.






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  Reply # 786683 25-Mar-2013 14:42
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Can I suggest we get the title of this thread updated by a admin / mod as it does not really reflect the actual query / issue



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  Reply # 786691 25-Mar-2013 14:47
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1080p:
newbellies:
Skolink: Is it possible to have the IMEI flagged (but not blocked) so that if it pops up on the network the police can use call record to find the new 'owner'?


I think this is a great question. 

I do know that at least Telecom is willing to tell me if that IMEI is active anywhere on their network. If it were, I could then relay the information on to police.   

Called up 2 degrees again, and as before, they stated they have no mechanism to block phones form their network. Said that they can only block sim cards.  They were also unable to tell me if my phone was active on their network.


This is due to privacy concerns. I am disappointed that Telecom would disclose that information to you. File a report with the police and have them track down the thief.


Don't be disappointed with Telecom as they are my provider. Good point about other providers and privacy though. 

As to "just file a report", i'm not sure if you've been through this lately, but it's surprisingly hard work to keep things like this up on the priority list for the police. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they are too busy with much more serious crimes.

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