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3889 posts

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# 136606 3-Dec-2013 10:18
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It was time to upgrade.

As everyone knows I'm keen to support 2degrees where I can.  You all know I consider it important to give the small guy as much support as we can because I feel if we don't then we just stay with the duopoly that we've all spent many years complaining about...

...but fair suck of the sav guys!

This morning I get yet another text telling me that I've hit my call spend limit.  I'm guessing this means I now can't access my voice mail again.

Last weekend I popped out to the farm and got told that I needed to add a 1Gb national plan to my mobile so it would work there...

The weeks before I had to call up after my $40 plan ballooned out to $450...

I will grant that buying a new phone, I had no idea what data it would really use and I accepted that I would need to put a 12Gb data block on it as a sensible way of managing costs on it.

But sorting out my stupid mobile is getting out of hand and I'm grumpy again!

Mr 2Degrees, you've got some really kewl billing features but it's all got way to complex now and out of control and the list of agitations  is just getting bonkers!

Earlier in the year I had to sort out a poor guy who got the wrong information from your shop staff because the plans are now so complex that they're failing to keep up with product knowledge.

Earlier in the month I tried to pay my "account" in the local shop and had to wait 30 minutes while they did what ever it was that they needed to do just to find out what I owed (which in the end she couldn't and I ended up just paying what I thought was owning, which transpired to only be 10% of what was being asked for.)

As some point last month two of us attempted to report a coverage issue at 121 and 123 Joy Street, Shirley, Christchurch.  OMG the hassle with doing that!  Seriously Mr 2Degrees, you can pull one over the shop staff who know nothing about how 3G radios work and one over my mate who only just knows how a phone works.... but you and I both know that the phone and cell site can both see what the signal strength is and all you actually need to review performance, is the offended mobile phone numbers!

But getting back to my spend....  I was paying $20 a month on prepay on my little LG P450.  It was getting a bit long in the tooth and time for a little upgrade so Samsung S4 here I am... but $450 bill, $172.66 dollar bill this time and the phone complaining that I have exceeded call spend!

I know why the call spend was put there... it was to stop more bill shock from the data (and given that I used my phone on Wifi 95% of the time, don't even get me started on that one).

I've spend what seems like way to much time talking to staff trying to make sure I'm on an ok plan as I questioned if my plan choice was to light (but really 'again', I doubled my spend!)

Guys you might have the worlds leading Oracle based billing system and it might have some of the coolest features in it (that could be dreamed up), but it's got out of hand and now it's just made me grumpy.


Ps:  Wifes bill is $199 this month to, and she was just trucking on with a $20 Vodafone top up. every 2 months, on her little 2G mobile... she also signed for a $40 plan (four times her previous spend per month). 

Question:  How is attempting to support the 'small guys' making me look?

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2 posts

Wannabe Geek

  # 944763 3-Dec-2013 14:51
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Hey hit Spend Control. Dial *100*5# to change or remove, you are responsible for your own usage.

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  # 945395 4-Dec-2013 14:48
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i can't believe i'm reading this, the completely unreasonable expectation of the things you are expecting a sales person, from a general electronics store to do for you as part of the sale. using an analogy of filling up a car with petrol and configuring your phone is apples and oranges.

let's go over your latest gripes

1) in order to review your usage, and provide a recommendation on the best plan he/she would need access to your account to see your usage history. did you offer to show him that? are you confortable with them seeing your personal details on your account?

2) why 24, 48, 96 hours? why not every day for the next year? for the next 10 years? what's the arbitrary line to draw in the sand here. reading it like this the concept does sound a bit ridiculous doesn't it?

3) fair comment on this

4) what do you consider a "reasonable" collection of software on your device. they can't read your mind, and have no idea what you will be using the phone for. everyone's needs is different, imagine the support issues of providing a "reasonable" collection for every purchaser...

5) you can run an iphone without the OS update, it is not mandatory. the fact you choose to do it, and over 3g instead of wifi and then gripe about it is your own fault.

i haven't bothered to answer to each of your other rants, but it looks like you were caught short not doing your research and don't want to take responsibility for it. fair comment on the sales people not being aware of the products they are selling, grant you that.


1486 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 531


  # 945452 4-Dec-2013 16:05
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Happy, No.... but would I?  Don't know.  I'd have to think about that.

But you could 'sell' this to me.  How many people buy an extended warranty on something that they just don't need to.  CGA?

If you didn't have to spend so much time doing 'your paper work' you'd have more time to actually 'sell me' something useful.

You need to sort out your paper work war so that you have time to spend with me.

Sorting out which apps you want is your paperwork, because it is your device. Not every user will want every app, or any apps. For example, of the apps you listed below, the only one I personally use is Trade Me - and even then, I would prefer it not be preloaded (Or more to the point, preloaded & not removable), because every user's use-case & preferences are different, and this is the advantage of smartphones as truly personal computers. Hence the opportunity you have identified for a walkthrough/setup.

One size doesn't fit all. I find your observations quite interesting because you're a new user to the current crop of smartphones, and while the market is still growing (especially in NZ), many users come to these devices already very savvy with the ecosystems & platforms. They know what they want, and they don't want anything unnecessary taking up precious space on their devices. Hence the love many have for Nexus devices, running 'vanilla' Android, without all of the preloaded apps & features that Samsung/HTC/Sony/LG et al consider to be value-adds, and of course the strong following for Apple.

There are diverse & robust backup & restore options for each ecosystem, allowing users to transfer everything over from their previous devices with minimum fuss. As people upgrade more & the number of potentially brand new users dwindles, the need for driving lessons decreases.

I feel there is a happy medium in terms of what can & should be provided on device out of box. I've personally spent a lot of time examining & dissecting Android builds for many different devices, including a number of operator-branded ones, which can & do add value in terms of neat, small, inobtrusive things like including exclusive notification sounds & wallpapers that both localise otherwise global technology, & can easily be disabled.

I also don't care for "Your bloatware".  My S4 came with a stack of it and so far most of it has managed to do little but annoy me.

Feedback for Samsung, then. :)

Bear in mind that what you consider useful, others consider bloatware, & vice versa.

However, you should care about what I do want.  You should care VERY VERY VERY much about what I do want because what I actually want seems to need, an almost, nightly amount of updating.

Welcome to smartphones. Their strength is in the ability to rapidly change, fix, & upgrade core functionality in tiny increments. Recommend turning on automatic updates over WiFi & forgetting about it if the micromanagement isn't to your liking. I like it lots, but that's me as a platform enthusiast.

Let's look at the iPhone 5 List...

* TradeMe app - lost count of the updates on that little pup in the last month and so far I haven't even used it.
* Westpac bank app
* ASB bank app
* ANZ bank app
* Kiwibank app...  (yes I have a few banks these days, but all for different reasons and more people I talk to are the same).
* AnyDo - neighbour recommended that one, it's done a few updates... (opps that's on the S4, but you get the idea!)

The list goes on with a few more, all of which have been getting a good suck of the sav.

I disagree that this sort of stuff should be preloaded. I don't use any of those banks, don't like Any.Do, & do like Trade Me. So your use-case is not mine, and the setup experience would inherently need to be personal, or else...

In the mean time I've been deleting applications.'d be spending a lot more time doing that. Plenty of users wouldn't bother, as demonstrated by every relative that still runs older versions of Internet Explorer with toolbars, bookmarks, & all the other on-by-default stuff intact.

Personalisation of this nature takes time. It does not make money, because it's all third party services that have no operator affiliation. Retail sales folks are there primarily to sell things & meet targets. This is, as I'm sure you realise, a nice-to-have. Vodafone Ninjas would, I'd wager, be happy to help in this regard, if they had the time to do so - a customer with a serious problem would most likely take priority over a nice-to-have.

Can you imagine my reaction if I purchased a new car and then had to spend hours over the next week just removing the 'sales decals' off all the windows, mirrors, etc just so I could use the car?

Ah, like all the stickers on Windows laptops!

Nik, As a provider you're going to sell me lots of data just doing updates.  So the more things you put on my phone that I actually want the better it is for YOU.

Sure. I love apps. I spend a lot of time using & researching apps. It's a third party ecosystem that does not generate revenue for the operators, primarily for Apple & Google. Where does the responsibility lie? I would argue that what you're describing is not akin to a car dealer showing you how to work all the fancy bells & whistles of a new car, and more akin to asking them to teach you how to drive.

Which, as mentioned, is a gap in the market. I'm not convinced it's a gap that the operators should be filling entirely by themselves, but it would be nice - like the chap with the barbecue - if someone did.

Again, you might want to update apps over WiFi instead of mobile data.

Is this device mine or YOURS?

Is your PC yours, or your ISP's?

You need to invest in your future business interest.  Doing 45 minutes of your paper work is not an investment in me and it's even less of an investment in your business.

Food for thought? :)

The sign-up process and a walkthrough of a new device are separate experiences that could be grouped together, but needn't necessarily be. Customers might be in a hurry at the store, and want to learn about the device in the comfort of their own homes. Have you seen Amazon's Mayday service? This may be the sort of thing you're after.

Product Manager @ PB Tech

1486 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 531


  # 945497 4-Dec-2013 16:47
3 people support this post


I went from Android 2.2 to iOS7.2.  That's going to keep happening.

I'd say the onus is primarily on Apple, or Google, or Microsoft, or even Blackberry to make sure you have a great transition to their product from their competitors'. :)

Product Manager @ PB Tech

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  # 946071 5-Dec-2013 14:13
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i think the reason you are getting a bit of friendly stick in the replies is because, quite simply, you aren't the hapless non-techie individual that you claim to be regarding smartphones. when your previous posts talks about home wifi serving up media content, having one's own domain name etc. people here assume that you are more of a techie than the general public who genuinely doesn't know.

which is backed up by the latest quote that you don't want "bloatware" on your phone, yet you propose that a random salesperson with no history of your usage suggest certain apps to mirror what you currently have? isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

using car analogies that don't match further adds to the situation. the equivalent of "When I buy a new car the dealer will take my kids car seat out and put it in the new car, they will do the same with my CD player or at least move the CDs from one stacker to the next." is "the sales person takes the SIM card from your existing phone, and puts it into the new phone and powers it on making sure it works"

the bit about having to do paperwork instead of teaching you to use the device analogy is also wrong. the equivalent to a car dealer would be if you had a bought a car on HP/car loan, and the car dealer is sitting down with you completing your paperwork rather than teaching you how to drive.

i'm not entirely certain at this point you aren't trolling for bites...

ps. you don't have the time to research a $1500 investment, that you use often? maybe that dollar amount is chump change to you, but it's not that hard to spend half hour on geekzone or the internet to figure out what works for you...

939 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 16


  # 946411 6-Dec-2013 09:42
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DonGould:  The point is that I keep finding this to hard, and if someone like me finds it to hard then we really need to have a rethink, in my view.

This is where I think you're wrong; looking over your post history, you seem to have a large amount of issues - most of which are actually quite simple.

As a whole, we don't need to have a perhaps, but then again, it's reasonable to expect someone to do research before they buy a product worth a reasonable amount of money. A significant majority of "techies" can jump into things like this with no issues; From a consumer PoV plans, devices and related paraphernalia are easier than ever to understand.

AndrewMac: My biggest question is why you were expecting so much service from Harvey Norman?

...and then blame the carrier for the issues.

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3889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 164

  # 947926 9-Dec-2013 12:03
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Just received: ...I know this is a bit like spam... but I do have to confess that it seemed timely and did make me a little less grumpy! :)





Hi Donald




Here's some fantastic news to help keep you connected while you’re out and about over the holidays. From 26 December 2013 when your plan allocations next renew, you’ll get even more!




Your plan now comes with 400 Carryover Minutes




Your $49 Carryover Plan now comes with a bunch of extra Carryover Minutes each month, so you can keep talking for longer.




More Carryover Data!




We’ve also given your data a boost so you’ll now get 1.25GB each month.




And remember with Carryover Minutes and Carryover Data, any minutes or data you don’t use simply carry over to the next month, and keep carrying over for up to 12 months!




Our $10 NZ Data Pack now gets you 500MB




We’ve bumped up the data in our $10 NZ Data Pack so it now comes with 500MB. When you need a little more data you have a choice of four NZ Data Packs to keep you connected throughout NZ.




Here’s to a fantastic Christmas and great start to the New Year with 2degrees.




Thanks for being with us,




The Team at 2degrees





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