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228 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1045111 14-May-2014 20:28
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Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.




 

 

 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1045116 14-May-2014 20:39
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ripdog:
chevrolux: Dam it Snap!! Why did you have to follow with this trend?!

America has finally figured out uncapped data isn't the way to go and are putting caps on, seems we are going the other way.

You already had unlimited nights so people with more than half a brain could use uTorrent Scheduler (or whatever torrent client they may use) to time downloads over night. And just about every cloud storage system (good ones anyway) have the ability to time uploads/downloads.

The way I see it is Telecom NZ can afford to have unlimited customers because they have loads and loads and loads (and loads) of bandwidth/resource. Can Snap really offer the same sort of service? Hopefully the butt loving leechers have already shifted to BlockedPipe so they won't affect us at peak times because they are probably the stupid ones that didn't get how unlimited nights worked.


Unlimited is incredibly pro-consumer and it really makes me sad people are complaining.

US ISPs are awful companies which generally have regional monopolies. They also own cable networks. Therefore, they initiate data caps not because they can't support the load, but because they want to cripple cable competitors like Netflix. It's scummy and it probably wouldn't be legal here.

There are at least a dozen of NZ ISPs offering unlimited now, some for over a year. This is sustainable. Unlimited equaling The cost of equipment drops every year, it's inevitable that unlimited becomes the norm over time in a competitive market. You should be damned thankful that our good regulatory structure allows us to have a hyper-competitive ISP market.

Honestly, praising the US ISP market, now I've seen everything.


As far as I can see more USA providers are putting caps on is because the same companies provide cable TV and they want you to use their cable tv instead of using netflix etc.

 

(Comcast is buying Time warner cable and AT&T is buying DirecTV)

 

I think unlimited is pretty needed with all the movie streaming services and the game download services, Some games are around 40gb to download

Anyway, Most people probably wont use more then a couple of 100 gb so it wont matter

 

 

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1045129 14-May-2014 21:06
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cjmchch: Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.


From Orcon's site:

http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_unlimited_is_the_unlimited_plan

"Essentially nothing - we reserve the right to prioritise certain traffic if the network comes under particularly large load like during a natural disaster or the release of a very popular and large software update."

Snap doesn't even do that - they state very clearly "NO TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT"

so in the event of a large software update, game of thrones episode, DoS attack etc etc,  you can kiss goodbye to decent speeds.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1045131 14-May-2014 21:11
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NonprayingMantis:
cjmchch: Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.


From Orcon's site:

http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_unlimited_is_the_unlimited_plan

"Essentially nothing - we reserve the right to prioritise certain traffic if the network comes under particularly large load like during a natural disaster or the release of a very popular and large software update."

Snap doesn't even do that - they state very clearly "NO TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT"

so in the event of a large software update, game of thrones episode, DoS attack etc etc,  you can kiss goodbye to decent speeds.


not so sure , they have done unlimited weekends in the past and according to TrueNet the speeds were the same as a normal weekend , so there is hope.

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  Reply # 1045133 14-May-2014 21:14
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vexxxboy:
NonprayingMantis:
cjmchch: Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.


From Orcon's site:

http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_unlimited_is_the_unlimited_plan

"Essentially nothing - we reserve the right to prioritise certain traffic if the network comes under particularly large load like during a natural disaster or the release of a very popular and large software update."

Snap doesn't even do that - they state very clearly "NO TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT"

so in the event of a large software update, game of thrones episode, DoS attack etc etc,  you can kiss goodbye to decent speeds.


not so sure , they have done unlimited weekends in the past and according to TrueNet the speeds were the same as a normal weekend , so there is hope.


totally meaningless.   A single weekend is not enough time to pick up the people who want to smash the network 24/7.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1045250 15-May-2014 01:53
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NonprayingMantis:
cjmchch: Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.


From Orcon's site:

http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_unlimited_is_the_unlimited_plan

"Essentially nothing - we reserve the right to prioritise certain traffic if the network comes under particularly large load like during a natural disaster or the release of a very popular and large software update."

Snap doesn't even do that - they state very clearly "NO TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT"

so in the event of a large software update, game of thrones episode, DoS attack etc etc,  you can kiss goodbye to decent speeds.

In other words, they only shape traffic when the network is experiencing congestion. Under normal usage situations where the network is not congested, no shaping is done.

As others have said, there is no evidence that things are going to go downhill just because there are unlimited plans now. The existing data caps were already quite generous - certainly big enough that you could quite happily download a Game of Thrones episode at peak times if you wanted to. It's not like people are suddenly going to start downloading 10x as much. They'll just pay less to do so.

It also helps that there are other ISPs that have been offering unlimited for a while. The geekiest downloaded will have switched already and are probably locked into 12 or 24 month contracts. By the time they're ready to switch, the market should be even more competitive and ready for the data deluge.

If Snap are prepared to offer unlimited, they must be satisfied that they can handle the load. I'll trust in that until proven otherwise.

243 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1045365 15-May-2014 10:19
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I'm on UFB (100/50) with 150GB plus 500GB extra pack (think its 500GB or whatever the maximum was) and for me if there is no difference in speed, traffic management etc. then I might as well move to unlimited as its cheaper.

The one thing I have noticed in the last week or so is that when I run my Speedtest.net tests I've had a significant drop in download speed.  The tests are from Christchurch to Snap's server in Christchurch and previously was retunring approximately the following over the last 6 months or so:

2ms Ping - Down 102 - Up 52

For the last week or so its been:

2ms - Down 91 - Up 46

This might not seem like much, however a drop of 10% in my books is significant and nothing at my end has changed (haven't installed any updates to Fritzbox or my Asus wifi router - no other devices hogging bandwith etc. - no background downloads etc.).  I hope this isn't a sign of things to come with Unlimited.

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  Reply # 1045368 15-May-2014 10:32
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Otagolad: I'm on UFB (100/50) with 150GB plus 500GB extra pack (think its 500GB or whatever the maximum was) and for me if there is no difference in speed, traffic management etc. then I might as well move to unlimited as its cheaper.

The one thing I have noticed in the last week or so is that when I run my Speedtest.net tests I've had a significant drop in download speed.  The tests are from Christchurch to Snap's server in Christchurch and previously was retunring approximately the following over the last 6 months or so:

2ms Ping - Down 102 - Up 52

For the last week or so its been:

2ms - Down 91 - Up 46

This might not seem like much, however a drop of 10% in my books is significant and nothing at my end has changed (haven't installed any updates to Fritzbox or my Asus wifi router - no other devices hogging bandwith etc. - no background downloads etc.).  I hope this isn't a sign of things to come with Unlimited.


Hey, I noticed speed drops in the last week too. Ive been running about 80mbps where I usually get around 92mbps. 

Although, this morning it seems to be back to normal. 



243 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1045372 15-May-2014 10:53

surfisup1000:
Otagolad: I'm on UFB (100/50) with 150GB plus 500GB extra pack (think its 500GB or whatever the maximum was) and for me if there is no difference in speed, traffic management etc. then I might as well move to unlimited as its cheaper.

The one thing I have noticed in the last week or so is that when I run my Speedtest.net tests I've had a significant drop in download speed.  The tests are from Christchurch to Snap's server in Christchurch and previously was retunring approximately the following over the last 6 months or so:

2ms Ping - Down 102 - Up 52

For the last week or so its been:

2ms - Down 91 - Up 46

This might not seem like much, however a drop of 10% in my books is significant and nothing at my end has changed (haven't installed any updates to Fritzbox or my Asus wifi router - no other devices hogging bandwith etc. - no background downloads etc.).  I hope this isn't a sign of things to come with Unlimited.


Hey, I noticed speed drops in the last week too. Ive been running about 80mbps where I usually get around 92mbps. 

Although, this morning it seems to be back to normal. 




Just been on the phone with Snap to get my plan changed to unlimited - has saved me $16 a month - and they say that there isn't anything they are aware of that would have caused a drop of that amount.  I'll check again when I'm home today and keep checking regularly now that unlimited is underway.

243 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1045374 15-May-2014 10:53

Surf - where are you based?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1045376 15-May-2014 11:00
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Otagolad: Surf - where are you based?


Tauranga. 


575 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1045683 15-May-2014 17:17
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Otagolad: The one thing I have noticed in the last week or so is that when I run my Speedtest.net tests I've had a significant drop in download speed.

I doubt it's related to the unlimited plans. They've only been available for a day or two, so nobody would have been on them when your slowness issues started.

If anyone does get affected by people abusing the unlimited data, I've got no doubt they'll make plenty of noise and Snap will do what can they to address the issue. A paying customer is a paying customer, after all!

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1045691 15-May-2014 17:44
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nzgeek:
Otagolad: The one thing I have noticed in the last week or so is that when I run my Speedtest.net tests I've had a significant drop in download speed.

I doubt it's related to the unlimited plans. They've only been available for a day or two, so nobody would have been on them when your slowness issues started.

If anyone does get affected by people abusing the unlimited data, I've got no doubt they'll make plenty of noise and Snap will do what can they to address the issue. A paying customer is a paying customer, after all!


All ISP's have issues from time to time, and of course lots of end users have isolated issues too, I can just see now the first thread, my broadband is going slow it must be because x now has unlimited, later to find out at the bottom of the thread its home wiring or on a Conklin/ASAM....

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1045723 15-May-2014 18:41
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NonprayingMantis:
cjmchch: Orcon states in its terms and conditions attahced to the 100/unlimited plan that it does not shape nor does it have a fair usage policy.


From Orcon's site:

http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/gfaq_page/how_unlimited_is_the_unlimited_plan

"Essentially nothing - we reserve the right to prioritise certain traffic if the network comes under particularly large load like during a natural disaster or the release of a very popular and large software update."

Snap doesn't even do that - they state very clearly "NO TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT"

so in the event of a large software update, game of thrones episode, DoS attack etc etc,  you can kiss goodbye to decent speeds.


I take the word traffic management with a grain of salt. Really everyone probably has a different definition. You could put a router with say a 100Mbps interface on it in line and as long as you aren't creating artifical queues or filters on traffic, it's not managing traffic, it's just bottlenecking it as fast as the physical media can go :o) However, duing it's day, 100Mbps congested wouldn't be called traffic shaping or traffic management either no doubt.

As for routing decisions.... everything requires a route decision, but most wouldn't call that traffic management as in bandwidth limiting but just part of how TCP/IP works. Therefore, in the event of a DoS attack, you create a route in to oblivion instead of forward it on to the next router. That's just a routing decision not a traffic speed decision. So the definition of traffic management I think is in the eye of the bedholder's view.

I believe there is no such thing as a free lunch, but I don't think a few are going to ruin the experience for the majority these days given line limitations vs the big phat pipes the ISP's have (when comparing it to an end user fibre connection).

I'm not a fan of unlimited, mainly because it means those using less are paying to fund those using more. But then, that's exactly what Internet plans are anyway unless you have your own private capcity not shared with anyone else. But the whole Internet is shared a few hops up stream so go figure.

They probably just have the power to purchase more capcity and drop capcity upstream easier these days.




'That VDSL Cat'
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  Reply # 1045743 15-May-2014 19:24
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kiwirock:

As for routing decisions.... everything requires a route decision, but most wouldn't call that traffic management as in bandwidth limiting but just part of how TCP/IP works. Therefore, in the event of a DoS attack, you create a route in to oblivion instead of forward it on to the next router. That's just a routing decision not a traffic speed decision. So the definition of traffic management I think is in the eye of the bedholder's view.

I believe there is no such thing as a free lunch, but I don't think a few are going to ruin the experience for the majority these days given line limitations vs the big phat pipes the ISP's have (when comparing it to an end user fibre connection).

I'm not a fan of unlimited, mainly because it means those using less are paying to fund those using more. But then, that's exactly what Internet plans are anyway unless you have your own private capcity not shared with anyone else. But the whole Internet is shared a few hops up stream so go figure.

They probably just have the power to purchase more capcity and drop capcity upstream easier these days.


exactly.  im purely concerned that snaps network will drop in the TCP/IP performance that we currently see, say an artificial limit on scaling. technically your not managing, but your gonna kill anything international! 


long as snap keep up what they are doing, all the best to them! if not, im sure they will work hard to keeping it acceptable, the NOC guys at snap are great.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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