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Topic # 147340 16-Jun-2014 17:41
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Fellow Geeks, I'm looking for some community input to a wee situation I'm currently having to deal with (and hopefully this doesn't end up all soap boxy and get a ban hammer thrown in my direction) My grandfather built a new property in a subdivision in December 2013 and new subdivisions being what they are only provided FTTH and a handful of providers to choose from. Under my recommendation my Grandfather selected Snap! As I know they generally have great service and their products are generally pretty good. I think its important to point out this isn't a Snap! Specific problem - it would have happened to any provider. So Snap! Had our good friends at Chorus install a Fritz box - however they installed this in the garage... The spare garage.

In my limited install experience it was a bit of a joke I.e. Cable tied to the wall. The distance between the fritz box and computer meant the WiFi signal didn't reach - and no jack points were tested as the installers were only advised to install this into the cabinet. So around and around we go with Snap! Adamant they've kept to their end of the deal, technically they have they were providing "internet" and my grandfather adamant they hadn't because he didn't have internet at his computer.

So refusing to pay for his "service" has now resulted in his "service" being suspended. Since he has paid for a third party to come and move the fritz box to his office including rewiring but now has a $200 odd outstanding account hanging over him (he's currently paying his monthly bill as now believes he has service) and continually gets his account suspended over odd values being rolled over from the outstanding amount. I'm really trying to figure out the next steps because being ex telco I get Snap technically held up their end of the deal...

But not really if you catch my drift. I'm more than happy to be told to deal with the stubborn old man but would like some community thoughts. Thanks!

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  Reply # 1066857 16-Jun-2014 17:50
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I've not dealt with a UFB or FTTH installation so far.  Typically for a VDSL installation the Chrous guy will ask where you want the outlet and will be pretty accommodating.

Who instructed the location of the installation in the home?




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  Reply # 1066861 16-Jun-2014 17:56
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I'm not sure if this is part of the problem - three sides to every story, his side, her side, and the truth. I assume (read dont know) Snap! Did. But in saying that the old man may have been told that's his comm box so that's where it goes...

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1066869 16-Jun-2014 18:10
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Does the house have structured cabling (cat 6) in place from the Comms cabinet throughout the house? If so it would have been trivial for someone to move the Fritz! to an ideal location in the house with a couple of patch cables. Or does the Comms cabinet only contain patching for telephone runs? 

I think that Snap! and their wholesaler (Chorus) have done exactly what is required of them and nothing that isn't required. When I got UFB installed it was my responsibility (and my cost) to have somewhere to put the Fritz! if I didn't want it in the cupboard where I requested the fibre be terminated. It was my responsibility to run the Cat 6 and terminate it, all the provider/contractor had to do was terminate the fibre where I selected (in my 'Comms cupboard' of sorts). Running Cat 6 from their to another point in the house so that the router could be close to a computer is outside of their scope.

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  Reply # 1066871 16-Jun-2014 18:12
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If they had paid for the internal cabling of the house to be installed when it was built then there wouldnt be this issue. Save a few bucks then and pay a lot more later in the cost of moving the router now.

Not snaps fault. Internet was on and provisioned to the building. Same as the power company would still be charging you even if you had not yet gotten around to installing the light fittings.




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  Reply # 1066872 16-Jun-2014 18:12
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The comms box does seem to be the obvious place to install a router. EDIT: Re-reading your post, not sure if there is actually a comms box installed or not??

I would have thought this may be more of an issue with the developer - unless the prospective owner specified otherwise, then a basic structured cabling system should be specified in new dwelling builds (especially in a dedicated FTTH area), this way the owner can move devices to wherever they want them.

IMHO if a connection through to the right address is provisioned and working (which it appears it is), then the ISP's side of things is sorted. If the connection is not in the preferred location within the dwelling, then responsibility could lie in several areas, from the occupier not communicating the correct location to an on-site installer to the developer not installing the right cabling, or something half way between the two - more info would really be needed to determine this.

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  Reply # 1066892 16-Jun-2014 18:43
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I agree that this is a fault with the developer, it is ridiculous that they put a comms box in the garage without a structured cabling system to get the signal back to the house!

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  Reply # 1066944 16-Jun-2014 19:14
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It sounds like this is simply a case of the contractor for the LFC not providing an install set up thats appropriate to the user.
As an example of the opposite - Clearvision contracted to UFF in the waikato, who are finishing ours this week have been excellent in communicating with us, letting us know each stage of the process for the install, and letting us choose where the ONT box goes, being flexible about it too - we're putting it somewhere where theres no power point and an electrician is dropping one in shortly.

Your grandfather likely sees the internet as a single service hes paying snap for. He probably doesn't care for the LFC (Chorus?), or the subcontractor who did the work, he pays snap and he wants usable internet on his PC wherever that might be in his house.
Snap on the other hand are simply providing broadband to an address. They have nothing which states they need to provide internet to his PC, just usable internet to the modem and a functioning modem (if thats what they supplied).

So its a pretty clear misunderstanding. Geeks will likely side with snap because they understand the process. The layperson will side with your grandfather because they dont know all the details of how it all works. Its not clear however whether the appropriate questions were asked by the installer, or whether the appropriate information was provided by the occupier.

IMO think the best course of action is snap working with you and him to figure out exactly how much needs to be paid to settle the difference, and arrange a payment schedule if it cant be paid entirely up front. It should also not go on his credit history record, which i know unsettled bill payments can and will (but im not sure at what point), since it was from a misunderstanding.
I personally see this as a fair move for both parties, but others might argue otherwise.

As you can see i'm in favour of them that they are holding up their end of the bargain, and the layout of ones particular house should not be relevant to whether the bill is paid. If problems with the install remain, that should be taken up with the LFC contractor (via snaps help if necessary) but snap shouldn't be accountable for their actions. This could be the main part where snap could potentially have done better if they hadn't, which is helping the customer contact the LFC for issues with the install.



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Reply # 1066954 16-Jun-2014 19:23
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Perfect! Thanks guys - completely agree with all statements. Also thanks for the analogy of powers connected but no wires to the light fittings, that helped me explain the situation to him. Unfortunately just appears every done what was required of them and nothing more (the property developer included) hopefully this is the last we'll hear of this... But I am connecting his DVD player for him in the weekend so could be another thread ;-)

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  Reply # 1066992 16-Jun-2014 20:25
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Relatives of mine have just moved to a new house in a new subdivision here in Whanganui.  No structured cabling, just phone jacks and a Chorus copper ETP.  This is in a street which at least by the end of the build had fibre (UFF).  At least they'll get to choose where the ONT goes if they ever get fibre.  Pretty shocking for a new build, but of course most people don't know to ask the "is this place fibre ready?" or have any idea of what proper cabling might entail.

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  Reply # 1066996 16-Jun-2014 20:30
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Was the house built to their spec or did they buy it after it was built?




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  Reply # 1067237 17-Jun-2014 07:11
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It was built off plans provided by the developer/builder. Apparently the house has been wired with Cat5 so really am really at a loss as to why Chorus insisted the Fritzbox be placed in the comms cabinet... But in saying that I have very limited to no experience with fibre installs.

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  Reply # 1067243 17-Jun-2014 07:21
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If it has been wired with cat5 then the comms cabinet is the perfect spot. You then patch from there to where ever you need.

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  Reply # 1067258 17-Jun-2014 09:05
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That is correct RunningMan but annoyingly for the end user they will have to buy a wireless access point upstairs to get the desired result.




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  Reply # 1067261 17-Jun-2014 09:14
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the sparky may have used cat5e cable but may not have run structured cabling "star wiring" throughput the dwelling, have rented in a few modern builds where obviously the value of the dollar ruled.

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  Reply # 1067400 17-Jun-2014 12:46
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Dynamic: That is correct RunningMan but annoyingly for the end user they will have to buy a wireless access point upstairs to get the desired result.


Assuming (that's the first mistake I guess!) that it is star wired and fitted off with RJ45s, then you could patch the ONT through and put the Fritz anywhere else in the house that was more suitable, without having to get a separate AP.

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