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Topic # 148792 1-Jul-2014 10:48
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I'm basically at the end of my tether with Snap. I'm on a 24-month contract, having signed up for VDSL with them at my old residence. We moved house and unfortunately had to bump down to ADSL (still using the supplied Fritzbox 7390). We've had a few hiccups prior to the current fiasco, but modem resets and a call to tech support always solved the issue.

7 days ago, the modem dropped the connection and then lost the ADSL signal completely. Obviously I did what I could to troubleshoot (reset modem, try a backup ADSL modem, etc.) 6 phone calls and 2 emails later, my connection is still down. It takes a minimum of 10-15 minutes to get through to Snap tech support when I call, I have been called back exactly once, and when I finally got them to schedule a Chorus technician to come out, and had to take time off work, they never showed up.

After a second call to schedule a tech for today I received a text message that they were coming out this afternoon. At 9:00, just as I was about to begin work, I got a call from a Chorus tech asking if anyone was home. 9AM is not the afternoon, as far as I'm concerned. I have just got off the phone with Snap again, and the support personnel told me she would "chase Chorus up". We'll see what comes of it.

TL;DR: These things happen, and I've tried to be flexible, but I'm getting no love from Snap. The tech support personnel are personable and sympathetic, but from my perspective nothing has actually been done to get my problem solved.

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  Reply # 1077644 1-Jul-2014 10:48
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  Reply # 1077701 1-Jul-2014 11:19
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To me , it sounds like your issue could be with chorus . Your contract is with snap but they have no other option than to use chorus.

You could switch ISP but they'll also be using chorus so I'll bet you get the same problems. 

I sympathise though. Internet connections are something I could not live without . The next time I move house my criteria will be UFB internet, water, power. 

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1077706 1-Jul-2014 11:29
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I think you're right, but Chorus won't deal directly with the end-user, so it's up to Snap to resolve the issues on my behalf. I don't hold Snap responsible for Chorus' infrastructural issues. I AM disappointed with their sluggish response and the need for me to spend what feels like hours on hold and explaining the problem again and again.

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  Reply # 1077707 1-Jul-2014 11:30
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while maybe the snap support wasnt quite up to expectations, it really does read like chorus have shuffled things around and are to blame for your issue not being resolved upon the first tech coming out.

its easy to blame the snap csrs, i know i have done it once or twice myself, but your anger should really be directed at chorus by the sounds of it...




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  Reply # 1077711 1-Jul-2014 11:36
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I'm frustrated rather than angry, and I'm certainly not angry at any individual customer service/tech support rep. My perspective is that these things happen. However I have no recourse with Chorus, AFAIK. I don't pay them anything, so why would they listen to me? As my ISP, I (rightly or wrongly) expect Snap to intercede on my behalf if/when I have an issue with the service I pay them to provide. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what I'm paying for if they don't provide the service.

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  Reply # 1077713 1-Jul-2014 11:42
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hio77: 

its easy to blame the snap csrs, i know i have done it once or twice myself, but your anger should really be directed at chorus by the sounds of it...


I disagree, he has no commercial contract with Chorus, and as far as he's concerned Chorus don't exist. If anyone should be directing anger, it should be Snap directing theirs at Chorus for making them look bad IF it was indeed them who dropped the ball twice.



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  Reply # 1077730 1-Jul-2014 11:52
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insane:
hio77: 

its easy to blame the snap csrs, i know i have done it once or twice myself, but your anger should really be directed at chorus by the sounds of it...


I disagree, he has no commercial contract with Chorus, and as far as he's concerned Chorus don't exist. If anyone should be directing anger, it should be Snap directing theirs at Chorus for making them look bad IF it was indeed them who dropped the ball twice.




fair point.

i didnt mean directly at chorus, as there is no means to do so.. except maybe the tech that comes out, but that would almost certainly be counter-productive.  


it would be great if all isps could go at it against chorus for every time they drop the ball, but then, chorus  seem to drop the ball so damn often it would be insanely repetitive...




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  Reply # 1078207 1-Jul-2014 20:41
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insane:
hio77: 

its easy to blame the snap csrs, i know i have done it once or twice myself, but your anger should really be directed at chorus by the sounds of it...


I disagree, he has no commercial contract with Chorus, and as far as he's concerned Chorus don't exist. If anyone should be directing anger, it should be Snap directing theirs at Chorus for making them look bad IF it was indeed them who dropped the ball twice.

I can see it from both sides here.

As you say, Snap's customers don't have any commercial contact with Chorus. They're effectively subcontractors, doing work at a number of different sites for a number of contacting customers (ISPs). As Snap's customer, you expect Snap to handle almost everything and you only deal with Chorus when they're on-site.

But think of things from Snap's point of view. They're very much a middle man in the whole affair. They have to deal with the irate customer, and they've got almost no idea what's going on unless either Chorus or the customer tell them something. If there's a problem with something Chorus has done, Snap can lodge a complaint but don't have any visibility as to how that's progressing.

About the only thing that Snap can do is to keep chasing up Chorus to see what progress is being made. This is far from easy. Each case needs to be monitored and prioritised against every other open case. You also need to evaluate when a case is worthy of being escalated in priority, and how frequently you can escalate cases without there being some sort of repercussions.

When you consider that there's a 15 minute queue on the phone to reach a CSR, it can't be that surprising that issues often get parked until Chorus come back with something. 

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  Reply # 1078533 2-Jul-2014 11:44
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nzgeek: But think of things from Snap's point of view. They're very much a middle man in the whole affair. They have to deal with the irate customer, and they've got almost no idea what's going on unless either Chorus or the customer tell them something. If there's a problem with something Chorus has done, Snap can lodge a complaint but don't have any visibility as to how that's progressing.


That is Snap's choice, they decided to be an ISP in the NZ market.  If Chorus are not delivering a good service then Snap can attempt to fix that through their relationship with Chorus or they could lobby Government to give Chorus a push.

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  Reply # 1078551 2-Jul-2014 12:19
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graemeh:
nzgeek: But think of things from Snap's point of view. They're very much a middle man in the whole affair. They have to deal with the irate customer, and they've got almost no idea what's going on unless either Chorus or the customer tell them something. If there's a problem with something Chorus has done, Snap can lodge a complaint but don't have any visibility as to how that's progressing.


That is Snap's choice, they decided to be an ISP in the NZ market.  If Chorus are not delivering a good service then Snap can attempt to fix that through their relationship with Chorus or they could lobby Government to give Chorus a push.


 yes I was about to say the same thing, no one is forcing them to provide isp services. Also if they are not happy with their provider and how they are handling it, they could put the customer in direct contact with the supplier, or they could ask for it to be escalated and show to the customer that they arenl't happy and have had it escalated.

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  Reply # 1078775 2-Jul-2014 17:10
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I'm basically at the end of my tether with Snap. I'm on a 24-month contract, having signed up for VDSL with them at my old residence. We moved house and unfortunately had to bump down to ADSL (still using the supplied Fritzbox 7390). We've had a few hiccups prior to the current fiasco, but modem resets and a call to tech support always solved the issue.

7 days ago, the modem dropped the connection and then lost the ADSL signal completely. Obviously I did what I could to troubleshoot (reset modem, try a backup ADSL modem, etc.) 6 phone calls and 2 emails later, my connection is still down. It takes a minimum of 10-15 minutes to get through to Snap tech support when I call, I have been called back exactly once, and when I finally got them to schedule a Chorus technician to come out, and had to take time off work, they never showed up.

After a second call to schedule a tech for today I received a text message that they were coming out this afternoon. At 9:00, just as I was about to begin work, I got a call from a Chorus tech asking if anyone was home. 9AM is not the afternoon, as far as I'm concerned. I have just got off the phone with Snap again, and the support personnel told me she would "chase Chorus up". We'll see what comes of it.

TL;DR: These things happen, and I've tried to be flexible, but I'm getting no love from Snap. The tech support personnel are personable and sympathetic, but from my perspective nothing has actually been done to get my problem solved.



I think a few of your guys are letting Snap off a little lightly here.

Whilst Chorus are a PITA to work with,  the OP isn't just complaining about his experience with the tech, he is also complaining about the lack of care from the Snap contact centre too - time to get through, lack of callback etc.

see the bolded section.

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  Reply # 1078839 2-Jul-2014 20:05
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graemeh: That is Snap's choice, they decided to be an ISP in the NZ market. If Chorus are not delivering a good service then Snap can attempt to fix that through their relationship with Chorus or they could lobby Government to give Chorus a push.

mattwnz: yes I was about to say the same thing, no one is forcing them to provide isp services. Also if they are not happy with their provider and how they are handling it, they could put the customer in direct contact with the supplier, or they could ask for it to be escalated and show to the customer that they arenl't happy and have had it escalated.

Those are very simplistic views of a much more complex issue.

The problem with Chorus is that they hold a monopoly position. They control all of the infrastructure, from the demarcation point at the customer premises to the network aggregation points where the traffic is handed off to the ISPs. Even if an ISP wants to install their own DSLAMs, these still have to go into Chorus-controlled cabinets or exchanges. The only alternatives are prohibitively costly.

In short, if you're an ISP in NZ, you don't have much choice but to deal with Chorus. And one you're in, the only realistic way out is to stop being an ISP.

Because Chorus are a monopoly, they hold all the power when comes to negotiations. You can't threaten to go elsewhere for services as there's nowhere else to go. So long as Chorus are living up to the obligations specified in their contact with the ISP and with the relevant regulations, there's no leverage to get them to improve things.

There's not much hope of help from the government either. Chorus are a publicly traded company, and if the government still holds any shares then it'll only be a minority shareholder. They can't influence things directly. And unless there are major, systematic problems with Chorus as a whole, there's no way that the government will try and change things via regulation.

Also, being a public company, everything that Chorus does is about bringing value their shareholders. Every decision comes with a cost/benefit analysis. Allowing customers to call them directly to ask about work orders or to make complaints is probably a nice thing to do, but there's a cost for running that public-facing call centre and an existing process via the ISPs. There's no shareholder benefit, and no obligations through contacts or regulations, so it's just not going to happen.

Coming back to Digmarx's original issue, (s)he appears to be a standard residential customer, and the outage looks to have been an annoyance more than anything else. Having Chorus miss the first scheduled visit was pretty dismal, but this was out of Snap's control and could have been due to any number of reasons.

As for the second visit, you run into the same thing with any busy tradesperson. If another job takes longer than expected or something urgent crops up, your job can be delayed. If another job takes less time than expected or someone else cancels, your job might be brought forward. The only difference here is that you can't get hold of the Chorus tech to see if their schedule has changed.

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  Reply # 1078841 2-Jul-2014 20:12
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nzgeek:  

.....There's not much hope of help from the government either. Chorus are a publicly traded company, and if the government still holds any shares then it'll only be a minority shareholder. They can't influence things directly. And unless there are major, systematic problems with Chorus as a whole, there's no way that the government will try and change things via regulation.....



I think you might want to research how Chorus came about, it might surprise you

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  Reply # 1078842 2-Jul-2014 20:13
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The Snap call centre waiting times in the evenings can be pretty frustrating (10-15 minutes sounds like you got off lightly). Generally though I've found their call centre service on par with most others and as a bonus their support staff seem to be pretty technically competent.

I sympathise though, I had a similar situation when I moved house. Took the afternoon off to make sure I'd be around for the Chorus tech who was then a no show. When I called Snap my job had been bumped by two weeks they didn't know what was going on (I'm guessing Chorus didn't add any explanation to ticket). After some to-ing and fro-ing between all parties it turned out that Chorus had checked the cabinet the previous day and decided there was hardware missing but not notified anyone. Unwilling to sacrifice more leave, after much advocacy (and a stubborn refusal to put the phone down until I had something I could work with) Snap eventually went back to Chorus and arranged an 'emergency' Saturday install. Install was scheduled for the morning but Chorus turned up at 5pm. Go figure.

Seems to happen time and time again: systematic failure and an inability to place any value in a 3rd party clients time.

If I thought my feedback would do any good I would complain.

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  Reply # 1078849 2-Jul-2014 20:37
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nzgeek:
graemeh: That is Snap's choice, they decided to be an ISP in the NZ market. If Chorus are not delivering a good service then Snap can attempt to fix that through their relationship with Chorus or they could lobby Government to give Chorus a push.

mattwnz: yes I was about to say the same thing, no one is forcing them to provide isp services. Also if they are not happy with their provider and how they are handling it, they could put the customer in direct contact with the supplier, or they could ask for it to be escalated and show to the customer that they arenl't happy and have had it escalated.

Those are very simplistic views of a much more complex issue.

The problem with Chorus is that they hold a monopoly position. They control all of the infrastructure, from the demarcation point at the customer premises to the network aggregation points where the traffic is handed off to the ISPs. Even if an ISP wants to install their own DSLAMs, these still have to go into Chorus-controlled cabinets or exchanges. The only alternatives are prohibitively costly.

In short, if you're an ISP in NZ, you don't have much choice but to deal with Chorus. And one you're in, the only realistic way out is to stop being an ISP.

Because Chorus are a monopoly, they hold all the power when comes to negotiations. You can't threaten to go elsewhere for services as there's nowhere else to go. So long as Chorus are living up to the obligations specified in their contact with the ISP and with the relevant regulations, there's no leverage to get them to improve things.

There's not much hope of help from the government either. Chorus are a publicly traded company, and if the government still holds any shares then it'll only be a minority shareholder. They can't influence things directly. And unless there are major, systematic problems with Chorus as a whole, there's no way that the government will try and change things via regulation.

Also, being a public company, everything that Chorus does is about bringing value their shareholders. Every decision comes with a cost/benefit analysis. Allowing customers to call them directly to ask about work orders or to make complaints is probably a nice thing to do, but there's a cost for running that public-facing call centre and an existing process via the ISPs. There's no shareholder benefit, and no obligations through contacts or regulations, so it's just not going to happen.

Coming back to Digmarx's original issue, (s)he appears to be a standard residential customer, and the outage looks to have been an annoyance more than anything else. Having Chorus miss the first scheduled visit was pretty dismal, but this was out of Snap's control and could have been due to any number of reasons.

As for the second visit, you run into the same thing with any busy tradesperson. If another job takes longer than expected or something urgent crops up, your job can be delayed. If another job takes less time than expected or someone else cancels, your job might be brought forward. The only difference here is that you can't get hold of the Chorus tech to see if their schedule has changed.


Yes but ISPs choose to be an ISP under those conditions, no one is forcing them to provide ISP services. If ISPs weren't happy they could always put people into direct contact with their provider. But I suspect they want to retain a good relationship with their providers. But if they weren't happy they would be openly complaining about it like they did when telecom had the monopoly prior to unbundling. But mAybe it isn't a big enough problem for them yet and isn't affecting their bottom line. Or maybe if is about not rocking the boat, or biting the hand that feeds.

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