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Topic # 152402 25-Sep-2014 11:31
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Seeing a gradual decline in speed and quality of SNAP, is anyone else?

On DSL.

Changed to SNAP last year after what I thought was slow speed from the dark side and ping spikes up into the four hundreds.  The people at SNAP are great to deal with, although they have had me spend a lot of money on a new modem, in order to eliminate that as a possible source of trouble (it wasn't).  I'd have to say that their responsiveness to calls and emails is quick-ish, patient and better than others (you know who you are).

I have an incurable WoT habit.  The server is in Singapore.  

When I joined SNAP I got 160 ping rates.  Now it's 250-400.  I've seen them routing through Sydney to Tokyo (sometimes to Osaka too) and back to Singapore.



I know there have been a lot of other threads on SNAP stuff but can't see anything on this gradual worsening of service levels.

Is this just SNAP doing crap international wholesale deals with Telstra or someone, or is there another possible cause?

Thanks

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  Reply # 1137302 25-Sep-2014 11:31
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Hello... Our robot found some keywords in your post, so here is an automated reply with some important things to note regarding broadband speeds.

 



 

If you are posting regarding DSL speeds please check that

 



 

- you have reset your modem and router

 


 

- your PC (or other PCs in your LAN) is not downloading large files when you are testing

 

- you are not being throttled by your ISP due to going over the monthly cap

 


 

- your tests are always done on an ethernet connection to the router - do not use wireless for testing

 


 

- you read this topic and follow the instructions there.

 



 

Make sure you provide information for other users to help you. If you have not already done it, please EDIT your post and add this now:

 



 

- Your ISP and plan

 


 

- Type of connection (ADSL, ADSL2, VDSL)

 


 

- Your modem DSL stats (do not worry about posting Speedtest, we need sync rate, attenuation and noise margin)

 


 

- Your general location (or street)

 


 

- If you are rural or urban

 


 

- If you know your connection is to an exchange, cabinet or conklin

 


 

- If your connection is to a ULL or wholesale service

 


 

- If you have done an isolation test as per the link above

 



 

Most of the problems with speed are likely to be related to internal wiring issues. Read this discussion to find out more about this. Your ISP is not intentionally slowing you down today (unless you are on a managed plan). Also if this is the school holidays it's likely you will notice slower than usual speed due to more users online.

 



 

A master splitter is required for VDSL2 and in most cases will improve speeds on DSL connections. Regular disconnections can be a monitored alarm or a set top box trying to connect. If there's an alarm connected to your line even if you don't have an alarm contract it may still try to connect so it's worth checking.

 



 

I recommend you read these two blog posts:

 



 

- Is your premises phone wiring impacting your broadband performance? (very technical)

 


 

- Are you receiving a substandard ULL ADSL2+ connection from your ISP?




I am the Geekzone Robot and I am here to help. I am from the Internet. I do not interact. Do not expect other replies from me.



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  Reply # 1137315 25-Sep-2014 11:35
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Have a read of this, also in reference to WoT:

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=158&topicid=152147

Specifically:

Regs: the route that gives you only 130ms is via the SEA-ME-WE 3 undersea cable that runs from Perth to Singapore via Indonesia.  This is a very low capacity cable, e.g. compared to Southern Cross, and it is significantly more expensive than other routes.  There is also no redundancy as we found out a year or so ago when it broke and was out of action for a few months forcing all traffic to reroute.

There is a good chance your routes will never get back to what you had - the traffic via sea-me-we 3 may be too expensive for anything but commercial services now.  I know that Microsoft (and probably others) pay extra to buy capacity on this cable and have their traffic (office 365, crm, azure etc) go via this optimal route. 






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  Reply # 1137322 25-Sep-2014 11:45
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Wow.  Thanks for prompt and useful reply.  Does this suggest that they may be using the Indonesian route, it has problems and hence the detour to Tokyo for a quick Sushi and Sake en-route to Singapore?

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  Reply # 1137324 25-Sep-2014 11:47
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When we were looking at Amazon Web Service, we took a look at which datacentres would give us the best result.  Sydney was awesome, and Singapore was atrocious (from several ISPs).  I think you should consider the following:

 

  • Use a game server in a different location if possible
  • Move to another game
  • Get a new hobby
  • Get a girlfriend/boyfriend :)




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams



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  Reply # 1137334 25-Sep-2014 12:00
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  • Use a game server in a different location if possible
              Further and worse ping.  Some folks from USA use WoT in Singapore and get over 300 ping rates.  That way lies madness.

 

  • Move to another game
              This is my drug of choice (along with coffee, chocolate and moderate alcohol of course).  Should I not be able to use it?  

 

  • Get a new hobby
               I'm 58 years old - I have/have had more hobbies than most people think sensible or legal.  Shooting other idiots in tanks from a sedentary position works well when recovering from a 5 hour spine surgical hackathon :-)

 

  • Get a girlfriend/boyfriend :)
            My wife of 38 years would not approve and I'm not up to it (see reference to surgery above).

            All good fun but it's keeping me from killing tanks that might get away........

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  Reply # 1137339 25-Sep-2014 12:09
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The first few hops of your traceroute suggest there are other things going on here besides the route to the WoT servers.

You're getting a very high ping and packet loss to the first few hops which are inside the Snap network. This suggests congestion at your local exchange/cabinet, you're accessing via WiFi or your router is borked. To help people here would need to know more information - refer to the PeterReader post.

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  Reply # 1137341 25-Sep-2014 12:10
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*chuckle* Fair enough!

I don't know if it is possible to set up your own game server in NZ for others to use.  Might be worth a look.

When your drug of choice is free, you are at the mercy of the drug dealer.  If there is a paid account, you might get a faster game server as a result.

I hope you are not killing your back hunched over in a chair plotting evil.  I'm sure your good lady would not mind a 40"+ mounted on the ceiling above the bed.  Bolt it in.  Properly.

I might have to give WoT a try this weekend.  :)




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  Reply # 1137345 25-Sep-2014 12:15
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Kraven: The first few hops of your traceroute suggest there are other things going on here besides the route to the WoT servers.

You're getting a very high ping and packet loss to the first few hops which are inside the Snap network. This suggests congestion at your local exchange/cabinet, you're accessing via WiFi or your router is borked. To help people here would need to know more information - refer to the PeterReader post.


True! I hadn't even looked closely at the traceroute given it sounded so similar to the complaint in the other thread. Now that I do, yes, it would be worth giving more info about your connection and location, as that first hop doesn't look good.

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  Reply # 1137347 25-Sep-2014 12:19
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Checking your original post further, there definitely looks to be an issue with the first couple of hops.  Your 1ms connection to your router is great, but the 150ms (approx) next hop is rubbish.  I believe it should be in the 20-40ms region for an average ADSL connection.  That suggests more calls to Snap may be in order.  We are on Snap VDSL (very good connection) and our results are below.

 

Tracing route to worldoftanks.asia [92.223.16.133] over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms Vigor2750.lan [192.168.69.254]
2 5 ms 4 ms 5 ms 229.34.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.34.229]
3 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 228.34.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.34.228]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 5 ms 5 ms 6 ms 32.27.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.27.32]
6 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 33.27.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.27.33]
7 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms ae5-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz [210.55.202.213]
8 30 ms 29 ms 30 ms xe4-1-0.sgbr1.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.94]
9 29 ms 29 ms 29 ms ae0-10.sgbr4.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.198]
10 30 ms 30 ms 29 ms 202.68.67.117
11 30 ms 29 ms 30 ms xe-5-1-0.r00.sydnau02.au.bb.gin.ntt.net [202.68.64.126]
12 147 ms 145 ms 146 ms as-0.r22.tokyjp01.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.6.109]
13 215 ms 215 ms 225 ms ae-5.r21.sngpsi05.sg.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.7.39]
14 216 ms 216 ms 217 ms ae-13.r00.sngpsi02.sg.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.74]
15 216 ms 216 ms 214 ms 116.51.26.146
16 209 ms 212 ms 212 ms sg2-n5596-fe-1-vl231.wargaming.net [92.223.116.163]
17 213 ms 208 ms 212 ms sg2-sl-a133.worldoftanks.sg [92.223.16.133]

Trace complete.




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“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  Reply # 1137350 25-Sep-2014 12:21
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Dynamic: 

I don't know if it is possible to set up your own game server in NZ for others to use.  Might be worth a look.

When your drug of choice is free, you are at the mercy of the drug dealer.  If there is a paid account, you might get a faster game server as a result.


These options are not applicable to WoT. 

You would probably get comparable if not better ping to the US West server than Singapore, to be honest. I get about 130 - 140ms usually to US West. Although not sure if you can migrate a WoT Asia account to WoT NA.




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  Reply # 1137354 25-Sep-2014 12:23
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I was getting times out last night websites not loading right.




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  Reply # 1137356 25-Sep-2014 12:26
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Inphinity:

You would probably get comparable if not better ping to the US West server than Singapore, to be honest. I get about 130 - 140ms usually to US West. Although not sure if you can migrate a WoT Asia account to WoT NA.


This has been my preference in games where there's a choice, mostly based on anecdotal evidence, ever since the Starcraft 2 release debacle (actually even before that)  Though given the state of the internet in the US of late I have started to question it...

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  Reply # 1137381 25-Sep-2014 12:45
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Here it is on snap UFB. Sorry for the average formatting, pre/code BBCode don't seem to be supported.

[code]
Pinging worldoftanks.asia [92.223.16.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=174ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=170ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=173ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 92.223.16.133:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 175ms, Maximum = 180ms, Average = 177ms
[/code]

Via Atrill VPN to a Singapore server
[code]
Pinging worldoftanks.asia [92.223.16.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=149ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=189ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=147ms TTL=57
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=237ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 92.223.16.133:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 147ms, Maximum = 237ms, Average = 180ms
[/code]

Via Astrill server in Australia
[code]
Pinging worldoftanks.asia [92.223.16.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=405ms TTL=53
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=390ms TTL=53
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=395ms TTL=53
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=407ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 92.223.16.133:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 390ms, Maximum = 407ms, Average = 399ms
[/code]

Via Astrill server in the USA
[code]
Pinging worldoftanks.asia [92.223.16.133] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=301ms TTL=54
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=304ms TTL=54
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=303ms TTL=54
Reply from 92.223.16.133: bytes=32 time=302ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 92.223.16.133:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 301ms, Maximum = 304ms, Average = 302ms
[/code]


And from network-tools.com
[code]
Ping 92.223.16.133
[worldoftanks.asia]
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 220 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 224 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 225 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 224 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 217 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 218 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 240 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 238 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 218 ms
Round trip time to 92.223.16.133: 217 ms
Average time over 10 pings: 224.1 ms[/code]

Unsure if this is helpful at all, other than saying Snap UFB works pretty well.




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  Reply # 1137415 25-Sep-2014 13:01
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So many good, quick, answers, thanks everyone.

OK, FWIW WoT is fremium vs free.  It's no surprise to all of you that WoT life is miserable unless you invest a few bucks each month in gold, all major credit cards accepted ;-).  Don't want to change servers as I'm embedded in a clan of really good people (mostly Aussies - a nation of fine scrappers and team players all) who think it's a hoot having a Grandad on the team.

Yep, I'd have homed in on the DSL legs as the problem.  Last mile to cabinet is 2k (and part of it is probably being used by neighbours as an electric sheep fence) and rumor has it the cabinet is busier than the Vatican priest relocation service.  The cool dudes at SNAP suspected modem, so I went and got a super duper one, fair enough, what's a few hundred bucks to a game addict :-(.  It's a wired lan, not wifi - so no issue there.  SNAPers thought the issue was an international one and passed it on to their international team, and fair enough, told me it might take a while to investigate.

My next step is to poke around the modem for data as your other wise thread suggested.

..oh and by the way, please don't show me UFB porn, mocking the afflicted sir, is simply not cricket.

now if I can just find where in the network the hamster in the wheel is....

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  Reply # 1137464 25-Sep-2014 13:31
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DulceEtDecorumEst: So many good, quick, answers, thanks everyone.

OK, FWIW WoT is fremium vs free.  It's no surprise to all of you that WoT life is miserable unless you invest a few bucks each month in gold, all major credit cards accepted ;-).  Don't want to change servers as I'm embedded in a clan of really good people (mostly Aussies - a nation of fine scrappers and team players all) who think it's a hoot having a Grandad on the team.

Yep, I'd have homed in on the DSL legs as the problem.  Last mile to cabinet is 2k (and part of it is probably being used by neighbours as an electric sheep fence) and rumor has it the cabinet is busier than the Vatican priest relocation service.  The cool dudes at SNAP suspected modem, so I went and got a super duper one, fair enough, what's a few hundred bucks to a game addict :-(.  It's a wired lan, not wifi - so no issue there.  SNAPers thought the issue was an international one and passed it on to their international team, and fair enough, told me it might take a while to investigate.

My next step is to poke around the modem for data as your other wise thread suggested.

..oh and by the way, please don't show me UFB porn, mocking the afflicted sir, is simply not cricket.

now if I can just find where in the network the hamster in the wheel is....


sounds like your a rural fella, and likely sharing a conklin!


if the snap guys can reasonably do something about it, im sure they will. their NOC team are great! they will certainly take care of you if they can im sure.


it looks likely that the change was upstream however,which does complicate things a tad.



as an alternative option to look at, i have heard good reports from people using wtfast, might be worth a shot.




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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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