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8 posts

Wannabe Geek


#153800 8-Oct-2014 11:44
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After almost 6 months of an intermittent issue with my home line port,  I've decided to post in public to see if Snap finally realise how s*it their service has become....  I've had so many issues with them in the last couple of years its not funny, but I digress...


Anyway,  if someone calls my homeline from a spark/telecom line, it goes to a number is not in service recording,  and apparently its up to me to get Chorus to fix this,  even though I have no professional relationship with them,  I don't pay them a monthly fee to have a VoIP connection...  but apparently Snap are unable to discuss this with them because they don't do that...

Now I work for a company that provides a lot of VoIP services for various nationwide organisations, and we seem to manage to discuss these occassional porting issues with Chorus and get them sorted in 1-2 hours... yet Snap can't manage to do this in 2 weeks (and thats just this time)


Can anyone suggest a competent VoIP provider and/or ISP that I can switch to??


I think this may be the worst service I've ever experienced from a technical service provider,  and this is just the tip of the ice berg from them...

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  #1149836 8-Oct-2014 11:54
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We use Snap for our broadband and have only positive comments about their levels of service whenever we have needed to deal with them for support issues (rarely).

It sounds like in this case they are providing rubbish support.  There is no reason for them not to work with another telco to resolve your interconnection issues as it is affecting the service you are paying for (and may be affecting more of their customers).  For them to tell you they won't do that is a cop-out (unless there is something you are not disclosing).  You might have to vote with your feet, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

UPDATE:  In light of RalphFromSnap's response below, I see the logic that it is the calling party's responsibility to complain to their telco, though it is not a desirable option to make the issue someone else's responsibility when it is affecting one of your clients.  You might have to fudge it by asking a mate if you can phone Spark 'as them' to get some action.

We use 2Talk for our VoIP over a Snap VDSL connection.  Really happy with the setup.  Quality issues are very rare and brief.  2Talk expect you to be able to configure your own gear - they won't hold your hand.

We have had issues in the past with a Vodafone standard landline not being able to call some Telecom numbers.  They looked into it for us and the issue went away.




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“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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  #1149837 8-Oct-2014 11:54
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Hi Jason,

We can raise this with Spark, though technically the onus is on the calling party as they have the incorrect route (so your friends unable to call you should tell their provider). I can see the guys did not follow the correct process to escalate this, but initially we had no examples to escalate with. It will be escalated today.

^MC




Snap

0800 BROADBAND (276 232)
www.snap.net.nz

@SnapInternet on Twitter
Snap Internet on Facebook

Our Social Media Team:
^RO Ricky - Technical Lead
^AT Ashleigh - Retail Marketing Coordinator



 
 
 
 


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  #1149850 8-Oct-2014 12:06
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It's not uncommon for porting table updates to fail on the NEAXs, especially on some older Kai exchanges. Normally in this case it's normally an individual exchange that isn't updated, so the issue is highly unlikely to affect all Spark landlines.

The issue has absolutely nothing to do with Chorus as the NEAX exchanges are nothing to do with them as they are owned by Spark.

Snap can lodge a fault through the porting system so it will go back to Spark, but the best approach (and the issue would have been solved 6 months ago if this had been done) is for the party who is actually having the problem (since the issue is actually nothing to do with Snap) to contact the provider, in this case Spark. They would have been able to look at the issue and resolve it immediately.




8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #1149859 8-Oct-2014 12:13
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This is ridiculous, if I have power problems,  I don't call the lines company or the generator,  I call my provider who sort it out with their suppliers...


Oh and for the record I've tried 2 times so far to get telecom/chorus to sort the issue,  they send me right back to snap, as I believe they should, from a contractual point of view I have no agreement with anyone other than Snap to provide phone services,  and therefore Snap should be sorting it out....

I'm sure Snap provides some good service to some clients,  but I myself, my business and a couple of friends don't appear to be in that group...

For the record,  this was fixed once, after playing run around with snap and chorus/telecom... then it came back a couple of months later... maybe there are people on here who like spending weeks sorting out phone issues with their provider,  and other tertiary providers, but I'm not one of them,  I have way too much other stuff to do.



I've been with Snap since Andy Smythe set up inet... so I know damn well they used to be good.... now not so much,  more the best of a bad bunch....




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  #1149866 8-Oct-2014 12:17
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jasona111: This is ridiculous, if I have power problems,  I don't call the lines company or the generator,  I call my provider who sort it out with their suppliers...




That's all fine but the problem isn't with Snap, it's with Spark. I'm not defending Snap and they clearly haven't escalated things like they should have done, but ultimatey the issue is with Spark to fix as the issue is occurring from a Spark customer.

As for contacting Chorus they're not going to be able to do anything as the issue has nothing do with them as they're neither reasonable not have any involvement with IPMS (the porting system) or the NEAXs






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Wannabe Geek


  #1149876 8-Oct-2014 12:25
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sbiddle: 

That's all fine but the problem isn't with Snap, it's with Spark. 





While you're correct,  I have no legal connection with Spark,  my contract is with Snap to provide services...  which they are not providing...  it shouldn't matter where the issue is... I have an agreement with Snap to provide a service,  which they charge me for.... yet no service is delivered...  should I have to test 2 degrees, vodafone, spark, 2talk and any other phone provider to make sure I can recieve calls from them?  of course not,  this is why I pay Snap for a phone service...



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Wannabe Geek


  #1149878 8-Oct-2014 12:27
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sbiddle: It's not uncommon for porting table updates to fail on the NEAXs, especially on some older Kai exchanges. Normally in this case it's normally an individual exchange that isn't updated, so the issue is highly unlikely to affect all Spark landlines.





As far as I can tell it effects all Spark Mobiles and the few land lines I've tested,  both in CHCH and also the North Island...

 
 
 
 




8 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #1149958 8-Oct-2014 14:14
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Thanks Snap!  


Fixed in less than 2 hours when posted on a public forum,  took 2+ weeks when dealing with support staff...   Guess from now on,  I'll post my issues here on Geekzone, and they'll get fixed suitably fast..

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Snap Internet

  #1149966 8-Oct-2014 14:19
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Darn, I really must stop being so efficient eh Jason? Always happy to help where we have let you you down.

Routing issues are one of those muddy grey areas in regards to responsibility, as sbiddle and I have alluded to above it is technically not our fault, but definitely see your perspective and the industry is becoming more receptive too.

^MC




Snap

0800 BROADBAND (276 232)
www.snap.net.nz

@SnapInternet on Twitter
Snap Internet on Facebook

Our Social Media Team:
^RO Ricky - Technical Lead
^AT Ashleigh - Retail Marketing Coordinator



Devastation by stupidity
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  #1150054 8-Oct-2014 15:41
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I feel a need to voice support for jasona111 on this one. Fortunately I haven't had porting problems (yet) and I am not a Snap customer but I think a company that sells a service has a moral obligation if not a legal one to its customers when the service that has been paid for does not work as promised, regardless of the reason. To the end user, especially the non-technical end user, being told it is actually someone else's fault is exceptionally unhelpful as well as essentially dishonest. If I pay you for an orange and you don't deliver, what difference does it make to me if there was a frost in Gisborne? I still don't have my orange.

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1150092 8-Oct-2014 16:22
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Rikkitic: I think a company that sells a service has a moral obligation if not a legal one to its customers when the service that has been paid for does not work as promised, regardless of the reason.


That's where it gets murky.

Imagine a similar situation where NZ Post rent you a PO Box and any mail that is delivered to them they will deliver to your box.  This is pretty much how phones work.

Now imagine you buy a plastic orange from a seller in China.  They carefully package your orange and post it at their local post office.  China Post then send the package to New Caledonia.


Devastation by stupidity
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  #1150115 8-Oct-2014 16:44
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Ha ha. That’s a good one. Of course there is a grey area here but I think it also has to do with practicality. Naturally there has to be a limit as to how far a service provider can reasonably be expected to go, but if the issue rests on the willingness or otherwise of different telecom companies in the same country to talk with each other, then I think the customer has a right to expect the company they are doing business with to go to a little extra trouble to sort things out. And in fact, that is what seems to have happened in this case so kudos to Snap for getting it right in the end. But they should have done that in the first place, as a matter of course, and so should any other company in the same position. It is all too easy to blame the other guy and unfortunately businesses in New Zealand have a bad record of trying to weasel out of their responsibilities in just that way. Just try dealing with a bank sometime.




I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1150118 8-Oct-2014 16:48
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Rikkitic: [snip]To the end user, especially the non-technical end user, being told it is actually someone else's fault is exceptionally unhelpful as well as essentially dishonest.


I fail to see how this is even remotely dishonest - unhelpful perhaps, but it's a massive jump from there to dishonest.

Either way, Snap! have been helpful, and seen it through to resolution.

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  #1150487 9-Oct-2014 10:01
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RunningMan:
Rikkitic: [snip]To the end user, especially the non-technical end user, being told it is actually someone else's fault is exceptionally unhelpful as well as essentially dishonest.


I fail to see how this is even remotely dishonest - unhelpful perhaps, but it's a massive jump from there to dishonest.

Either way, Snap! have been helpful, and seen it through to resolution.


 

What I meant is this: In my experience some companies (not necessarily Snap) are quick to try to shift the blame for technical issues that arise rather than accept responsibility themselves. This is the easy way out. It lets them avoid a potentially difficult and time-consuming problem. It is a way of taking advantage of the complexity of modern technology because the ordinary consumer has no idea what is going on and cannot really argue their case. I had an experience like this recently between Orcon and Telecom. Each side insisted that the fault lay with the other, but neither was prepared to help me solve the problem because it did not seem to fall within their specific purview. Yet these companies and others in the sector have access to resources and knowledge that private consumers do not. When I am told to take my issue to the other company, all I can usually do is contact their public helpdesk number and spend an hour listening to excruciating tinny music until someone who knows less about the problem than I do finally answers and sends me around in another circle. Yet these companies have the ability to identify and contact individuals or departments internally that I do not. By insisting that the problem does not lie with them and they cannot do anything about it, they shift the burden to a hapless customer who has no idea where to turn next. To my mind this is dishonest behaviour but there are plenty of other words I can think of to describe it.

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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