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Topic # 154374 26-Oct-2014 02:23
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The Short Version:

I joined Snap's new UFB service when it became available here, and chose the Fritzbox 7390 router to go with it as it was the only one that was dual band and had NAS functions, as that was necessary.
It does not perform as advertised, and seems to have a intermittent overheating problem. Snap refuses to remedy the situation.

The long version:

After having researched the features of the 7390 before purchase, I thought it would be just fine. Snap was clear there was only two models they supported, and this was the bigger one. I wanted a smooth ride.. The snap web site made NO mention of faults or limitations of their model, and neither did the manufacturers web site product page (at the time).

After a ridiculous waiting period (3 bloody months), chorus finally installed my UFB and I was able to test out the modem. I quickly found the NAS features were simply not as advertised - notably, SMB support was gone. I called Snap on the issue, and was told 'it may be re-enabled with a new firmware". So I waited.

The new firmware has appeared, and it does not remedy the situation (according to the german version via google).

Snap will not meet it's obligations under the CGA. Specifically, being fit for a purpose I asked about, and matching the description given in advertisements.

I spent a good part of an hour on the phone with them, explaining the situation carefully, illustrating what I thought was a good solution (replace my unit with their new model, as now sold with the same contract I am on), and asking to speak to a manager.

I have been very pleased with Snap, and have promoted them to customers and friends. But all I got this time was (from memory - I seriously did not think I would have to record them):

"The manufacturer did it! Go to them! We don't have to do anything!"
"Load the old firmware that allows hackers to do toll fraud on your line. You will have to pay if they do!"
"We don't care if the manufacturer said it will and we didn't say it wont do NAS, you can't touch us"
"The new 7490 doesn't do NAS either! Won't do what you want!"
"it will cost you $199 to go to the 7490"
"sitting a modem near a LCD monitor could make it overheat"
... and various other fantasy land talk.

I did offer to pay the difference in price between my contract and the same contract as it is now (with the 7490) - apparently it's the same $50 fee i paid; or possibly another  reasonable fee. I did ask to speak to the manager repeatedly. And supervisor. Could not be done. I left my phone number so they could call back, and was given the impression "it wont happen". Still waiting.

So, I am now considering a disputes tribunal action. Is there some other tricks I can try? Did I get a newbie on the phone, and is there someone sane at Snap who will fix this debacle? 

Any tips?

Thanks....

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Baby Get Shaky!
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  Reply # 1162221 26-Oct-2014 03:37
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There's been plenty of discussion on GZ on the removal/limitation of the NAS feature on the Fritz. A quick search of the forums shows this post from May 2014 with a solution that according to the manufacturer has the NAS feature and the required security fixes in an older firmware.

I disagree that the router is not fit for purpose and "faulty", its a manufacturers limitation out of the control of Snap. Why should Snap have to list all known faults/limitations? You don't see Harvey Norman listing all known faults with Windows 8.1 on every laptop they sell. A quick Google search would show you countless complaints about the NAS feature being very slow when it was included.

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  Reply # 1162225 26-Oct-2014 06:46
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kingjj: ...its a manufacturers limitation out of the control of Snap. Why should Snap have to list all known faults/limitations? You don't see Harvey Norman listing all known faults with Windows 8.1 on every laptop they sell.

One of the joys of selling to consumers is the CGA.

There was an advertised (by the manufacturer) feature.  A consumer made a purchase decision based on this advertised feature.  It is irrelevant whether the retailer knew about the feature or a 'known fault'.  It is irrelevant whether the item purchased was discounted or even free.  The consumer is entitled to return the device to the retailer who will make it right in some way - whether arranging the repair or replacement of the device, offering an upgrade where the consumer can pay the difference in price, or refunding the customer and telling them to go away.

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/consumer-guarantees-act 

I'm a big fan of Snap.  I think they need to take this one on the chin if the customer wants to return the item.

Brendan, chances are the 7490 uses (nearly) the same firmware and you won;t be any further ahead.  With that in mind, pursuing this further might not be worth the bother and looking at a separate NAS might be time better spent.




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  Reply # 1162228 26-Oct-2014 08:04
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I don't have a view on what Snap are doing.

What I do have a view on is that using a router based NAS is simply a crazy thing to do. There isn't a single router out there with NAS functionality that comes anywhere close to matching the performance and functionality of even something basic like a cheap as chips $150 dedicated NAS unit.

My advice - if you want a NAS, buy a NAS. Don't expect your router (regardless of brand) to act as a NAS - because most deliver absolutely terrible performance and poor functionality. Even when the NAS did work on the Fritz!box it was pretty terrible (and I do love the Fritz!) hardware.






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  Reply # 1162229 26-Oct-2014 08:04
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Dynamic:
kingjj: ...its a manufacturers limitation out of the control of Snap. Why should Snap have to list all known faults/limitations? You don't see Harvey Norman listing all known faults with Windows 8.1 on every laptop they sell.

One of the joys of selling to consumers is the CGA.

There was an advertised (by the manufacturer) feature.  A consumer made a purchase decision based on this advertised feature.  It is irrelevant whether the retailer knew about the feature or a 'known fault'.  It is irrelevant whether the item purchased was discounted or even free.


I wonder if anyone successfully returned their PS3's under the CGA after a firmware update removed linux support. 

In this case the firmware could be downgraded thus restoring the functionality. 

I'm not sure which way a CGA ruling would go on this as the technical details are beyond most adjudicators. 

I agree with biddle above though, every router built-in nas i have tried has been so hopeless they never get used by me.   Maybe the 7490 is different as they use USB3.0 ports? But, I'd guess not.

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  Reply # 1162234 26-Oct-2014 08:29
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If you were in the market for a dedicated NAS and saw one with the same internal specs as the FritzBox you'd just laugh and walk away so how could you expect it to perform as a dedicated NAS?

YES......it does say NAS capable etc etc but to say it's not it's forte would be an understatement.

My Samsung TV has an advertised web browser but It's a terrible experience. I bought it for it's TV capabilities not it's web browser. If I took it back saying it does not work as a web browser i.e. laggy buggy freezes I don't think I'd get to far.







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  Reply # 1162235 26-Oct-2014 08:32
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surfisup1000: 

I agree with biddle above though, every router built-in nas i have tried has been so hopeless they never get used by me.   Maybe the 7490 is different as they use USB3.0 ports? But, I'd guess not.


I have the 7490 now, I tried it very briefly as a NAS when setting it just out of curiosity as I did with the 7390. If you want a very basic NAS it's fine. Anything other than that you really want a dedicated NAS.







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  Reply # 1162353 26-Oct-2014 12:41
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kingjj: There's been plenty of discussion on GZ on the removal/limitation of the NAS feature on the Fritz. A quick search of the forums shows this post from May 2014 with a solution that according to the manufacturer has the NAS feature and the required security fixes in an older firmware.

I disagree that the router is not fit for purpose and "faulty", its a manufacturers limitation out of the control of Snap. 


Thank you Kingjj (and the couple of others who made similar comments), but none of that is relevant to the claim.

Under NZ law, the retailer is responsible. It was described as having NAS features, including SMB. It does not.

Why should Snap have to list all known faults/limitations?


Because it is the law.




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  Reply # 1162354 26-Oct-2014 12:46
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Dynamic: 
Brendan, chances are the 7490 uses (nearly) the same firmware and you won;t be any further ahead.  With that in mind, pursuing this further might not be worth the bother and looking at a separate NAS might be time better spent.


I understand that is a risk, and should that be the case, I may then consider that Snap did there best. So far all I have had is silliness.

I do understand the NAS feature was slow, but I don't need a lot of speed as it'll be used primarily over wifi.

My point here is more about consumer law and Snap's apparent ignorance of it, as you correctly pointed out. Thanks.



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  Reply # 1162357 26-Oct-2014 12:49
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sbiddle: I don't have a view on what Snap are doing.

What I do have a view on is that using a router based NAS is simply a crazy thing to do. There isn't a single router out there with NAS functionality that comes anywhere close to matching the performance and functionality of even something basic like a cheap as chips $150 dedicated NAS unit.

My advice - if you want a NAS, buy a NAS. Don't expect your router (regardless of brand) to act as a NAS - because most deliver absolutely terrible performance and poor functionality. Even when the NAS did work on the Fritz!box it was pretty terrible (and I do love the Fritz!) hardware.


Thanks for your advice, I fortunately do not need massive performance at this stage, just access to a few files for repairing computers.

Also, the current unit has intermittant overheating problems, resulting in flaky internet - and phone calls. 





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  Reply # 1162358 26-Oct-2014 12:55
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PoHq: If you were in the market for a dedicated NAS and saw one with the same internal specs as the FritzBox you'd just laugh and walk away so how could you expect it to perform as a dedicated NAS?

YES......it does say NAS capable etc etc but to say it's not it's forte would be an understatement.

My Samsung TV has an advertised web browser but It's a terrible experience. I bought it for it's TV capabilities not it's web browser. If I took it back saying it does not work as a web browser i.e. laggy buggy freezes I don't think I'd get to far.


Thanks for your reply.

Yet that is what the law says.

If your TV refused to display a colour picture, youd take it back. If your TV did not accept a signal through the HDMI port, you'd take it back.

And you would be right to do so.

They said it did SMB. It does not. It is irrelevant if it is good NAS, just so long as it meets the expectations for such a device. It does not.



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  Reply # 1162359 26-Oct-2014 12:57
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PoHq:
surfisup1000: 

I agree with biddle above though, every router built-in nas i have tried has been so hopeless they never get used by me.   Maybe the 7490 is different as they use USB3.0 ports? But, I'd guess not.


I have the 7490 now, I tried it very briefly as a NAS when setting it just out of curiosity as I did with the 7390. If you want a very basic NAS it's fine. Anything other than that you really want a dedicated NAS.


Interesting.

Snap told me the 7490's NAS features do not work.

See what I'm up against?


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  Reply # 1162360 26-Oct-2014 13:01
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Brendan: Snap told me the 7490's NAS features do not work.

See what I'm up against?

So as of that time if you try the 7490 and it does not work, you would not be able to return the device under the CGA because you have been advised of that issue prior to purchase, if I interpret the law correctly.  Bugger.




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams



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  Reply # 1162363 26-Oct-2014 13:12
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Dynamic:
Brendan: Snap told me the 7490's NAS features do not work.

See what I'm up against?

So as of that time if you try the 7490 and it does not work, you would not be able to return the device under the CGA because you have been advised of that issue prior to purchase, if I interpret the law correctly.  Bugger.


Possibly, but I think that would be debatable in absence of a declaration on their web site. I think you will find that written advertisement takes priority over verbal comment.



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  Reply # 1162366 26-Oct-2014 13:15
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The point here is that SNAP has promised features and did not deliver.

Snap has deliberately misinformed a customer. Twice.

And snap refuses to fix a overheating problem with their unit.

Simple as that.


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  Reply # 1162367 26-Oct-2014 13:19
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I suggest at this point being patient until close of business on Wednesday to give them 2 business days to have a change of heart.




"4 wheels move the body.  2 wheels move the soul."

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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