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Digmarx

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#154608 2-Nov-2014 13:50
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Let me start by saying I'm not trolling, but rather trying to clarify the situation regarding the impeding Android 5 update.

Like a fair few other 2degrees customers, I was disappointed by 2degrees' delay in releasing the 4.4.4 Android update for the Nexus series of devices (which are meant to receive updates ASAP). This time around, I'd like to preempt my disappointment by asking whether or not we can expect the same delay for Android 5 (Lollipop). If this is the case, fine, but please let your customer base know what's going on. The lack of straight-forward communication last time around was unacceptable. In order that I don't come across as overly critical, let me say that I am very happy with my 2degrees 4G experience, and thank you for the Google Play Music promotion.

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MikeB4
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  #1166897 2-Nov-2014 14:28
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The Telco's will need to test  for network compatibility etc, something I prefer them to do to prevent breakage and a delay is worth it to ensure that. 

astrae
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  #1166908 2-Nov-2014 15:19
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KiwiNZ: The Telco's will need to test  for network compatibility etc, something I prefer them to do to prevent breakage and a delay is worth it to ensure that. 


I don't think the telcos have anything to do with Nexus upgrades. There are no specific carrier modifications, just one build for each model.

I can't find the article right now, but google explained the upgrade path for nexus devices. On the first day the update is released 1% to devices, then 10% on the 2nd day. It could be 5 days before you receive it. Its done this way so google doesn't brick all devices if there is an issue and to ease the load on the servers.







 
 
 
 


sbiddle
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  #1166910 2-Nov-2014 15:22
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astrae:
KiwiNZ: The Telco's will need to test  for network compatibility etc, something I prefer them to do to prevent breakage and a delay is worth it to ensure that. 


I don't think the telcos have anything to do with Nexus upgrades. There are no specific carrier modifications, just one build for each model.


2degrees have their own special release that's also shared with Telstra. Everybody else just uses the generic version as it's not sold operator specific.



ajobbins
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  #1166937 2-Nov-2014 16:05
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KiwiNZ: The Telco's will need to test  for network compatibility etc, something I prefer them to do to prevent breakage and a delay is worth it to ensure that. 


I see this as an excuse an unacceptable. Google tests the device radio extensively, and it's not like they release software that is going to mean your phone stops working.

The telco's are only ever certifying a device against their own network, and really wanting to tweak and optimise network performance for it. Your phone still needs to be able to work on any compatible network worldwide (eg. while roaming).

A much better option would be to release the software as-is on day 1, with an update with network tweaks later if required.






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Yabanize
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  #1167050 2-Nov-2014 19:07
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Exactly.. Why should we have a version different from everyone else? 

 

You can flash on the other version if you like though

YadaMe
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  #1167117 2-Nov-2014 20:19
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ajobbins:
KiwiNZ: The Telco's will need to test  for network compatibility etc, something I prefer them to do to prevent breakage and a delay is worth it to ensure that. 


I see this as an excuse an unacceptable. Google tests the device radio extensively, and it's not like they release software that is going to mean your phone stops working.

The telco's are only ever certifying a device against their own network, and really wanting to tweak and optimise network performance for it. Your phone still needs to be able to work on any compatible network worldwide (eg. while roaming).

A much better option would be to release the software as-is on day 1, with an update with network tweaks later if required.



This excus3 is just be these days. It's like spark stopping windows updates until they test them. Smart phones are getting to a point where security update speed is more important. They don't stop apple updates so why any others

sbiddle
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  #1167126 2-Nov-2014 20:26
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The problem is there are lots of different settings on handsets. Apple can get around this with carrier packs, Android can't.

The current Nexus 5 has some well reported issues with data stalling on Nokia Networks kit, and I believe also has some issues on ALU kit as well. There are also many differences between handset firmware - use a 2d S3 on any other network and you'll find quite a few problems that creep in, especially if you roam. You'll find reconnecting back to Vodafone or Spark can be a major problem with the phone only wanting to sit in SOS mode rather than reattaching to the home network. This issue doesn't exist on the VF firmware.

In a perfect world these issues don't exist, but in the real world they do.


 
 
 
 


tieke
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  #1167144 2-Nov-2014 20:59
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I know that I for one am going to have another network's SIM in my N5 come release date.  It didn't matter whether people's phones were from a 2degrees store or not last time, if you had a 2degrees SIM in your N5 you had to wait an additional two months for the 4.4.4 update (with basically no official information provided).  Given that it took that long for the 4.4.2-4.4.4 update to go through 2degrees systems, I wouldn't expect to have 5.0 available this year with a 2degrees SIM.  

I know a couple of people who changed to 2degrees with a 4.4.4. N5 before 2degrees released their version, and they had no problem, and neither did 2degrees customers who simply flashed the ROM. It's true though that even if a Lollipop N5 works on Spark or Vodafone (or most other carriers in the world) there's no guarantee that it will work on 2degrees. If so, I will simply not return to a 2degrees SIM.

This is basically because one of the main reasons I originally got an N5 was to have timely non-carrier-interrupted updates, and given the lack of transparency in 2degrees processes last time, I'm not going to rely on them being any better this time.  

ajobbins
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  #1167171 2-Nov-2014 21:55
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sbiddle: The problem is there are lots of different settings on handsets. Apple can get around this with carrier packs, Android can't.

The current Nexus 5 has some well reported issues with data stalling on Nokia Networks kit, and I believe also has some issues on ALU kit as well. There are also many differences between handset firmware - use a 2d S3 on any other network and you'll find quite a few problems that creep in, especially if you roam. You'll find reconnecting back to Vodafone or Spark can be a major problem with the phone only wanting to sit in SOS mode rather than reattaching to the home network. This issue doesn't exist on the VF firmware.

In a perfect world these issues don't exist, but in the real world they do.



But isn't that why we have standards? If all the manufacturers are complying with the standards, phone manufacturers should only need to test standards compliance.

If there are issues with certain devices working with certain kit - who isn't following the standards?




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Talkiet
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  #1167183 2-Nov-2014 22:14
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If you want to be on the bleeding edge, you can root and install a carrier independent version - It's not like the Nexus models make that particularly difficult.

I fail to understand why you're upset with a carrier choosing to test releases before allowing them to be rolled out through relatively automated procedures.

Remember, for most people, it's a phone, text, facebook, email and web browsing device - and being without the absolute latest software means damn near nothing.

For those people that feel having the absolute latest software trumps every other consideration, you have a pretty straightforward solution as well.

Cheers - N

ps. I have nothing to do with Mobile for Spark.




--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


tieke
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  #1167292 3-Nov-2014 08:59
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You're right - it's not a major problem for most people, it's more an issue for geeks. Hmm - sounds like an appropriate topic for geekzone ;)

No problem with 2degrees testing things, but it was just unexpected last time and a bit ironic, as one of the reasons Google created the unlocked Nexus line was to avoid carrier-inflicted update delays, and as far as I know, on 2degrees it's only the N5 that experiences them. (I don't know about all handsets, but I remember that Motorola phones on the 2degrees network all received the appropriate android updates immediately rather than waiting for months).

Anyway, it's not too important unless you're in a hurry to get the current OS version (although of course 2degrees also delayed the security-patch update), but I think that it wouldn't hurt for geekzone members to know that if you have a Nexus phone and are choosing between carriers in New Zealand, stick with Vodafone/Spark/Skinny if one of your priorities is timely updates.

astrae
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  #1167307 3-Nov-2014 09:25
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tieke: You're right - it's not a major problem for most people, it's more an issue for geeks. Hmm - sounds like an appropriate topic for geekzone ;)

No problem with 2degrees testing things, but it was just unexpected last time and a bit ironic, as one of the reasons Google created the unlocked Nexus line was to avoid carrier-inflicted update delays, and as far as I know, on 2degrees it's only the N5 that experiences them. (I don't know about all handsets, but I remember that Motorola phones on the 2degrees network all received the appropriate android updates immediately rather than waiting for months).

Anyway, it's not too important unless you're in a hurry to get the current OS version (although of course 2degrees also delayed the security-patch update), but I think that it wouldn't hurt for geekzone members to know that if you have a Nexus phone and are choosing between carriers in New Zealand, stick with Vodafone/Spark/Skinny if one of your priorities is timely updates.


I got the nexus 4 for the same reason to "avoid carrier-inflicted update delays"

I looked at the nexus 5 from 2 degrees but never got it.  Just took a look at the Nexus images webpage... Sure enough its listed separately.











tieke
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  #1167531 3-Nov-2014 12:23
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I don't want to bag on 2 degrees too much. I assume that unlike the other networks, they officially support the N5 handset so have to thoroughly check it works properly here, while other carriers don't bother checking it.

Basically this is just something to bear in mind if you value update immediacy over guaranteed 100% compatibility.

garvani
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  #1168353 4-Nov-2014 11:43
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So today is the day that the updates start rolling out. I would really love to know what changes 2degrees make, and what i could potentially break by just sideloading the ota.

Edit: oops no its not :(. However google is pushing the updates to aosp right now

ajobbins
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  #1168419 4-Nov-2014 13:09
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garvani: So today is the day that the updates start rolling out. I would really love to know what changes 2degrees make, and what i could potentially break by just sideloading the ota.

Edit: oops no its not :(. However google is pushing the updates to aosp right now


Now that it's pushed to AOSP, the device images shouldn't be too far away. Many of the updated Google Apps (That AOSP lacks) are already rolling out to pre-Lolipop phones, and considering the Nexus 9 is now available, I expect they are complete and everything just needs to be packaged.

After hearing rumours of a release today for the Nexus 5 I was excited, but looks like it may be a little while longer.




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