Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


24 posts

Geek


Topic # 200258 10-Aug-2016 14:50
Send private message

I have a fibre-only installation, with a 2degrees Fritzbox 7490. I have no problems with making and receiving calls from my telephone handsets via the Fritzbox's analogue phone line input.

 

Recently an alarm technician connected the house alarm to this analogue line (as if it were just another handset) for the purposes of monitoring. Although it "hears" a dial tone and attempts to make calls out to the security company approximately twice a minute, the calls are terminated before they even "leave" the house. The alarm dials out but is cut off within less than a second - either by itself or by the FritzBox, I can't tell. The FritzBox logs an outgoing call attempt each time, but shows the duration to be only a few milliseconds.

 

Strangely the alarm tries to dial out when there's a call currently underway - I would have thought it would test the line for a dial tone first before trying to dial? Could this indicate that the alarm isn't able to "listen" on the line - maybe it is not wired correctly? I believe it's just using the two wire telephony standard though, so that would be difficult to mess up.

 

The alarm company seem to be entirely unfamiliar with this situation and would prefer to install an IP module. I'd like to find out if I can get the analogue phone line method working though, as that module is almost $300, and it seems like it should work as there's definitely a dial-out attempt being made.

 

Has anyone had any experience with this and can give me some pointers please?

 

 


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
3191 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 910

Trusted

  Reply # 1608642 10-Aug-2016 14:55
One person supports this post
Send private message

Not that I've had any experience with this, but I think in general the recommendation around here is basically don't try and connect an alarm to ATA. 


14138 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2544

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608646 10-Aug-2016 14:58
Send private message

I had an IP module in my alarm, alongside a cellular module. It was awful, constant communication failures. Suggest cellular as being a better option, a physical line can be more easily cut.

 

As to the current problem, it's really for the alarm company to solve. Their alarm isn't using a phone line properly, or there's some difference between UFB lines and old style ones. Probably take ages to work out why unless someone has done it before.





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer




24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 1608649 10-Aug-2016 14:59
Send private message

> ... the recommendation around here is basically don't try and connect an alarm to ATA. 

 

If this is the answer, and someone can corroborate, then I'll accept this and look at the IP module instead, but do you know why this is the recommendation?


21449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4354

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608651 10-Aug-2016 15:01
2 people support this post
Send private message

meowsqueak:

 

> ... the recommendation around here is basically don't try and connect an alarm to ATA. 

 

If this is the answer, and someone can corroborate, then I'll accept this and look at the IP module instead, but do you know why this is the recommendation?

 

 

They dial really quickly for the codes they send and the DTMF recognition on most IP gear cant handle that and will miss digits. Setting the DTMF to inband and using a non compressed codec will work better but it is still not 100% as the protocol that alarms use was not made for the chance that there could be a missed digit and similar.

 

There are many better ways to do it, it is just the alarm industry seems to have about a 20-30 year lag for technology to reach the market. See the fact that they are still making and selling GPRS gear





Richard rich.ms



24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 1608661 10-Aug-2016 15:17
Send private message

Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

richms:

 

They dial really quickly for the codes they send and the DTMF recognition on most IP gear cant handle that and will miss digits. Setting the DTMF to inband and using a non compressed codec will work better but it is still not 100% as the protocol that alarms use was not made for the chance that there could be a missed digit and similar.

 

 

Hmm, I wasn't able to find a DTMF or codec setting in my FritzBox configuration. Either I missed it (repeatedly) or it's not there.

 

It does sound like an IP module, or cellular-based system might be a better option. It wouldn't take much for an intruder to disconnect the fibre before entry, although I'm interested in the monitoring mainly for the integrated smoke/fire alarms.

 

 

 

 




24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 1608666 10-Aug-2016 15:21
Send private message

Quick related question - those IP modules - I assume they need a connection to my Internet router, is that likely to be wired or wireless? Do they just need routing to the 'net? Can I put them in a DMZ to avoid reverse access to my LAN?


21449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4354

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608668 10-Aug-2016 15:22
Send private message

Are you self monitoring or using a security service?





Richard rich.ms



24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 1608673 10-Aug-2016 15:31
Send private message

richms:

 

Are you self monitoring or using a security service?

 

 

I was planning to use a security service.

 

 


67 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 1608690 10-Aug-2016 15:37
Send private message

It would appear that the alarm is incorrectly connected. It should treat the phone line from the Fritzbox exactly the same as an incoming POTS line. A relay should be fitted between the Fritzbox and any phone points. When an alarm occurs the alarm unit should operate the relay, disconnecting any phones and connecting the line from the Fritzbox to the alarm box allowing exclusive use of the line.


14138 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2544

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608754 10-Aug-2016 16:52
Send private message

meowsqueak:

 

Quick related question - those IP modules - I assume they need a connection to my Internet router, is that likely to be wired or wireless? Do they just need routing to the 'net? Can I put them in a DMZ to avoid reverse access to my LAN?

 

 

Ethernet cable. DMZ sounds fine.

 

Like I said, cellular is probably going to be more reliable, and mine uses so little data it actually expires before it runs out.





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer




24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 1608756 10-Aug-2016 16:55
Send private message

timmmay:

 

cellular is probably going to be more reliable, and mine uses so little data it actually expires before it runs out.

 

 

Do you know if there's a "standard" interface in play here, that would allow me to set up my own cellular (or even IP) "bridge", and then engage any security company to do the monitoring using my own choice of bridge? Or does the bridge need to be supplied and installed by each security company, to comply with their proprietary configuration?

 

Just trying to work out where the ownership/configuration "boundary" is between property owner and security company.


21449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4354

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608758 10-Aug-2016 17:00
Send private message

They supplied the bridge thing for ours. They say it can operate alongside other interfaces and that many people have the Cellular for the security service and the IP one for their automation and self monitoring via apps without problems.

The sim is taken care of by the security company normally.




Richard rich.ms

2109 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 528


  Reply # 1608770 10-Aug-2016 17:17
Send private message

A mate here in Christchurch uses cellular for his


14138 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2544

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1608782 10-Aug-2016 17:52
Send private message

meowsqueak:

 

 

 

Do you know if there's a "standard" interface in play here, that would allow me to set up my own cellular (or even IP) "bridge", and then engage any security company to do the monitoring using my own choice of bridge? Or does the bridge need to be supplied and installed by each security company, to comply with their proprietary configuration?

 

Just trying to work out where the ownership/configuration "boundary" is between property owner and security company.

 

 

I just had the alarm company do it, it wasn't worth the hassle and risk of alarms not going doing it myself.





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


1 post

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1609849 10-Aug-2016 21:21
Send private message

meowsqueak:

Thanks everyone for the responses.


richms:


They dial really quickly for the codes they send and the DTMF recognition on most IP gear cant handle that and will miss digits. Setting the DTMF to inband and using a non compressed codec will work better but it is still not 100% as the protocol that alarms use was not made for the chance that there could be a missed digit and similar.



Hmm, I wasn't able to find a DTMF or codec setting in my FritzBox configuration. Either I missed it (repeatedly) or it's not there.


It does sound like an IP module, or cellular-based system might be a better option. It wouldn't take much for an intruder to disconnect the fibre before entry, although I'm interested in the monitoring mainly for the integrated smoke/fire alarms.


 


 



You can find the DTMF settings in the setup of the individual phonenumbers. Maybe you need to activate the 'advanced mode' to get to see all menu items though. As for the codec I think the FRITZ box usually uses whatever you configure in your SIP provider setup. I specify the codecs in my 2talk setup and when I check the transmission details the codecs used match.

Let me know if you still cannot find the DTMF setup.
Click to see full size

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.