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Topic # 225490 21-Nov-2017 17:50
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My client called. They were told:

 

1 - fibre takes 3 months to install so they need to stick with another plan

 

2 - their adsl modem from halswell wont work in hornby as there are different modems used in hornby

 

3 - they need to buy a new modem - rather than fixing this issue.

 

 

 

1 - They have fibre available on their street - chorus / enable databases confirm the sticks sticking out of the ground work

 

2 - They have ADSL available - databases confirm it

 

3 - Being too close to something is never an excuse for not being able to use aDSL that I have heard in my professional career.

 

 

 

My client is also being charged a lot of money to keep their @snap address. IS this how two degrees are treating snap clients who stayed with them after they took over snap?

 

 

 

My phone call to 2degrees was very unhelpful.

 

1 - Online agent - lied - told me fibre not available - then had to retract when confronted with someone technical enough to refute his BS.

 

2 - Online agent told me adsl not available - lied - it is available.

 

3 - Refused to talk to me although I am authorised.

 

4 - Refused to put me through to supervisor when I was confronted with the 5th lie / obfuscation / BS in the phone call.

 

 

 

Is there a 2degrees person on line here, similar to the people VF have?

 

My client has been with 2degrees for quite a number of years, and with snap before that. Their adsl modem worked perfectly in the old location - so it is set up correctly for 2Degrees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 1905394 21-Nov-2017 17:53
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'That VDSL Cat'
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  Reply # 1905395 21-Nov-2017 18:02
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i'll comment from my side, in my role i can often be required to review, resolve and get in the thick of customer issues. (I did previously do raw frontline roles)

 

 

 

I'm always Impressed by many agents, who go above the point of duty - many of these can be against the stereotypes.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes there are the cases where misinformation is given, this is a learning opportunity.

 

 

 

to dig into your first point, the agent has done the right thing in trying to inform about fibre lead time possibilities; It has been conveyed poorly however (this could be agents explanation, or lack of understanding and/or assumptions on the customer side)

 

Fibre can take a crazy amount of time, it can also be bloody fast... Chorus (and many other LFC's) do provide further details on a address lookup to allow an agent to give a more educated explanation; If the B2B and Agent side facing tools show this though...

 

 

 

looking at your second point, i'd agree. i can't see why a modem change is being pushed unless the agent is actually trying to pull an VDSL install or something... (Although don't 2D only do VDSL capable fritz's?)

 

 

 

Point 3 seems to relate to above.

 

 

 

As for your communications, sounds like the agent may have not quite looked up things correctly - new agent maybe?

 

Authorizations are important, IMO there are some places Authorization should be laxed, but that can become a slidy slope....

 

 

 

Lastly, Management..

 

Often a manger is skilled more in the people side of things, Rather than technical so the issue itself will end up back with an agent - be it with direction from above.

 

This can be a difficult process however, as there are many strategies for handling these cases. Often the most common in callcenters are, Give the customer a few hours to cool off, take the time to research the issue before stepping into that conversation.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1905435 21-Nov-2017 19:33
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I have this kind of experence with 2D all the time, they are just not interested in fixing the issue unless it is a total failure.

 

I regularly have severe packet loss and cant stream internet radio let alone netflix.

 

They just dont care, I cant get it escalated to a manager / level 2 / someone who knows more than turning the modem off and on.

 

Once the contract has finished I am off.

 

Cant wait until UFB is in our area, it will fix all those problems.

 

 

 

John

 

 





I know enough to be dangerous


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  Reply # 1905459 21-Nov-2017 20:33
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SATTV:

 

I have this kind of experence with 2D all the time, they are just not interested in fixing the issue unless it is a total failure.

 

I regularly have severe packet loss and cant stream internet radio let alone netflix.

 

They just dont care, I cant get it escalated to a manager / level 2 / someone who knows more than turning the modem off and on.

 

Once the contract has finished I am off.

 

Cant wait until UFB is in our area, it will fix all those problems.

 

 

 

John

 

 

 

 

If they can't or won't fix a problem, then you can just change providers anyway and tell them that as they have broken their contract with you (to provide a proper Internet connection), then there is no break fee payable.  And tell them to go to the disputes tribunal if they really think they are right.  Make sure, however, that you have told the bank not to accept any more direct debits, and tell them the same.  I had to do this with Slingshot when they would not fix impossibly slow NNTP connections.  NNTP worked just fine on my new ISP.


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  Reply # 1905727 22-Nov-2017 12:17
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Hi Nunz,

 

Sounds like there may be some crossed wires there.

 

 

 

nunz:

 

My client called. They were told:

 

1 - fibre takes 3 months to install so they need to stick with another plan

 

2 - their adsl modem from halswell wont work in hornby as there are different modems used in hornby

 

3 - they need to buy a new modem - rather than fixing this issue.

 

 

Fibre can take up to 3 months to install if there are issues such as consents at play. A standard, straight forward installation for a single dwelling unit without consents/shared driveway is much quicker, we advise up to 30 days but in the majority of cases it is much quicker than this.

 

An ADSL modem will work on an ADSL connection regardless of location. The confusion here could be that it's an ADSL modem and the new address could be VDSL capable, we supply the fastest connection possible unless specifically requested otherwise. An ADSL modem will not work on a VDSL connection. I can;t think of any other reason why it would be advised that the modem would not work. If its a modem supplied by Snap/2degrees in the last 6 or so years it will be compatible with all three connection types.

 

nunz:

 

My client is also being charged a lot of money to keep their @snap address. IS this how two degrees are treating snap clients who stayed with them after they took over snap?

 

 

If the customer still has an active broadband connection, we'll continue providing @snap email addresses to legacy customers free. If they don't have an active connection, this is $10.95/month to keep these active.

 

We are certainly pretty keen to look in to the rest of what you have brought up here, can you please message us with the account and address in question, and we'll get someone in touch to discuss this.

 

Thanks

 

Ralph ^JOB




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  Reply # 1913354 5-Dec-2017 14:36
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2degreesCare:

 

Hi Nunz,

 

Sounds like there may be some crossed wires there.

 

 

 

nunz:

 

My client called. They were told:

 

1 - fibre takes 3 months to install so they need to stick with another plan

 

2 - their adsl modem from halswell wont work in hornby as there are different modems used in hornby

 

3 - they need to buy a new modem - rather than fixing this issue.

 

 

Fibre can take up to 3 months to install if there are issues such as consents at play. A standard, straight forward installation for a single dwelling unit without consents/shared driveway is much quicker, we advise up to 30 days but in the majority of cases it is much quicker than this.

 

An ADSL modem will work on an ADSL connection regardless of location. The confusion here could be that it's an ADSL modem and the new address could be VDSL capable, we supply the fastest connection possible unless specifically requested otherwise. An ADSL modem will not work on a VDSL connection. I can;t think of any other reason why it would be advised that the modem would not work. If its a modem supplied by Snap/2degrees in the last 6 or so years it will be compatible with all three connection types.

 

nunz:

 

My client is also being charged a lot of money to keep their @snap address. IS this how two degrees are treating snap clients who stayed with them after they took over snap?

 

 

If the customer still has an active broadband connection, we'll continue providing @snap email addresses to legacy customers free. If they don't have an active connection, this is $10.95/month to keep these active.

 

We are certainly pretty keen to look in to the rest of what you have brought up here, can you please message us with the account and address in question, and we'll get someone in touch to discuss this.

 

Thanks

 

Ralph ^JOB

 

 

 

 

After six phone calls from me - not to mention the client here is where things stand:

 

1 - got lied to / mis informed by three agents who cant tell what type of connection is available at the clients site because they were looking at the Chorus DB instead of the enable DB, despite them telling me it was an enble area for fibre. Had to do their job for them and point them at appropriate databases. My end feeling is they couldn't be bothered pulling their head out of what ever orifice they were slumped in and actually care enough to do even a average job.

 

2 - Got told client too close to exchange so adsl not available ??? Say what???  Bollocks!!!

 

3 - Agents refused to talk to client re permissions or issues - cant do outward calls from their call centre. Wow - a phone provider whose help desk cant phone out. After permissions gained agents refused to answer some questions re getting charged $39 per month for the supposedly free @snap email address. Wouldn't even answer a question as to what the monthly charge to keep a snap address is despite that being a non specific question asked five times.

 

4 - got refused to be put through to supervisors by three different agents. supervisor not here. just check with supervisor. Supervisor not here. Hmmm .. something stinks about that response.

 

5 - got bounced between five different departments trying to raise a formal complaint about an agent who hung up phone on me when I got peeved that the agent refused to answer a simple question 7 times in a row. Agent says bollocks a rude word. Actually its not according to Sex Pistols vs the State. Finally a word with grunty constanants i am allowed to use.   Funnily enough there are words in the bible I am not allowed to use. Pity really as I love the KJV for its language.

 

Agents seem to fail to understand that after I have asked the same question 3 times, warned them i am getting agitated and grumpy and then finally getting grumpy on the sixth or seventh asking - me asking if they understand english or do they just enjoy talking bollocks and then getting bollcked by a client is a natural outcome. 7 times, same question, same exact words - seven non answers waffling on about stuff not asked. Bloody frustrating. How hard is it to answer the question What profile is the client on at the exchange? ADSL or VDSL?  

 

6 - client now four weeks into this process - no phone, no internet, no nothing. No follow up, no support. No return calls.

 

 

 

We have now determined:

 

1 - the modem will work with ADSL - anywhere in NZ that there is proper signal strength. That was a wasted 30 minutes of my life.

 

2 - Still no idea about the fibre connection.

 

3 - Still no internet connection

 

4 - Other issues going on as well. Line test supposedly good yet no dial tone on phones plugged into walls in all three jacks. hmmm!!!

 

 

 

2Degrees some suggestions.

 

1 - if a person asks a question - answer it - dont start talking about whatever else you feel like talking about.

 

2 - don't lie or mislead clients  - some of them know more than you do and will call you on it.

 

3 - Be involved in resolving a clients issue - don't just get them off the phone and chalk up another phone call completed. it's bad KPI and false economy.

 

4 - If a client wants to talk to a supervisor because your techs(sic) have messed them around and peeved them off - get them to a supervisor. your techs are getting away with murder and making you look like idiots with no recourse or escalation process possible. That would make your help desk a help desk with no escalation process or or procedure - which would make you a BAD help desk as without escalation process and procedures you're knackered.

 

 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 1913382 5-Dec-2017 15:12
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Hi @Nunz 

 

This is definitely not the kind of service we expect for our customers. 

 

We'd like to get this sorted but we need some details to look into this further. Please can you please PM us with their customer number, address and a contact number. 

 

Many thanks

 

^BRM


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  Reply # 1913415 5-Dec-2017 16:19
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nunz:

 

My client called. They were told:

 

1 - fibre takes 3 months to install so they need to stick with another plan

 

 

Had something similar with an old client (but they wernt on 2D) , they were happy to stay with their existing provider but at a new location - so called their ISP to arrange, got told looking at 3-6 months and no xDSL available as it was a new subdivision - problem was, they were moving in 2 weeks.  Called another ISP and had it installed bang on moving day.

 

How/why diff ISP's seem to get different install dates is beyond me.......





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

Home Of The Overrated Raccoons

 

 


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  Reply # 1913422 5-Dec-2017 16:32
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I genuinely don't understand why these threads pop up so often. The fantastic thing in NZ is he have a butt load of ISP's that will happily provide a connection on the UFB network.

 

Instead of wasting time with an RSP that doesn't give you what you want, why not call a competent one?! The time wasted with "useless ISP" is far better spent calling "good ISP" and just getting an order underway.

 

I used to recommend Snap to people, but wouldn't point anyone to 2degrees - far too many stories of useless service, and not mention the enormous billing screw up earlier in the year. They should have just stuck to mobile, they seemed to have that on track.


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  Reply # 1913846 6-Dec-2017 13:54
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fe31nz:

 

If they can't or won't fix a problem, then you can just change providers anyway and tell them that as they have broken their contract with you (to provide a proper Internet connection), then there is no break fee payable.  And tell them to go to the disputes tribunal if they really think they are right.  Make sure, however, that you have told the bank not to accept any more direct debits, and tell them the same.  I had to do this with Slingshot when they would not fix impossibly slow NNTP connections.  NNTP worked just fine on my new ISP.

 

 

sounds like you just got lucky that they didn't want to waste time with the disputes tribunal. slow NNTP does not mean they are not providing you a 'proper Internet connection'.


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  Reply # 1914127 6-Dec-2017 21:18
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Yes it does when I specifically told them that I needed good NNTP when I signed up.  And it was not just slow, IIRC, it was less than 1% of the usual download speed and what I had been getting for NNTP from them up until they changed a router setting and stopped it working properly.  And when you pay for an Internet connection, you expect to be able to use it for anything that the Internet is capable of.  So if NNTP does not work, then yes, that is not providing a proper Internet connection.  It is only if they tell you when you sign up that some things may not work that they could get away with not providing a fully capable Internet connection.


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  Reply # 1914386 7-Dec-2017 09:51
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fe31nz:

 

Yes it does when I specifically told them that I needed good NNTP when I signed up.  And it was not just slow, IIRC, it was less than 1% of the usual download speed and what I had been getting for NNTP from them up until they changed a router setting and stopped it working properly.  And when you pay for an Internet connection, you expect to be able to use it for anything that the Internet is capable of.  So if NNTP does not work, then yes, that is not providing a proper Internet connection.  It is only if they tell you when you sign up that some things may not work that they could get away with not providing a fully capable Internet connection.

 

 

of course some things may not work, it's the nature of the internet (and i'm also sure you agreed to this as it's in every ISPs terms and conditions).

 

unless you have in writing from them that they will support your NNTP requirement you don't get to define what 'proper Internet' means.


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  Reply # 1914595 7-Dec-2017 14:05
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sorceror:

 

fe31nz:

 

Yes it does when I specifically told them that I needed good NNTP when I signed up.  And it was not just slow, IIRC, it was less than 1% of the usual download speed and what I had been getting for NNTP from them up until they changed a router setting and stopped it working properly.  And when you pay for an Internet connection, you expect to be able to use it for anything that the Internet is capable of.  So if NNTP does not work, then yes, that is not providing a proper Internet connection.  It is only if they tell you when you sign up that some things may not work that they could get away with not providing a fully capable Internet connection.

 

 

of course some things may not work, it's the nature of the internet (and i'm also sure you agreed to this as it's in every ISPs terms and conditions).

 

unless you have in writing from them that they will support your NNTP requirement you don't get to define what 'proper Internet' means.

 

 

It was nothing to do with something not working.  It was to do with them not fixing it.  I tried to get them to fix it.  I really did.  It was clear that it was something they were doing, but they did not ever seem to even try to fix it.  And you seem to not understand consumer law.  If you go into a shop and talk to a salesperson and tell them that you need an x that is able to do y, and they sell you an x where y does not work, or stops working, then they have to fix it or give you your money back.  That is the law.  It works just the same when you are buying a service from someone - if you make it clear that you need the service to do something, and they then agree to provide the service, and then it does not in fact do the something, they are legally required to fix it or refund.  And before you say that they have a clause in their terms and conditions that allows for that, no, the law always overrides any terms in a contract, unless it specifically allows contracting out, which is not the case with the CGA and FTA.  In fact, any terms in a contract that purport to allow them to not do things the law requires may be a violation of the FTA.  And if their contract had said that they could at any time choose to make NNTP not work, then I would not have signed up with them.  It did not.  It had the usual clauses that said that they could not guarantee that they would always be able to provide a 100% working service - I have no problem with that.  But I made sure when I signed up that the things I needed from an Internet connection that were a little different (such as NNTP and running my own SMTP server and needing a static IP address) were available from them.  I made a list and discussed them all with the salesperson when I signed up.  So when they persistently did not fix the NNTP problem, I had every right to tell them that they were were violating their contract with me and that I was changing ISPs - I warned them first, of course, but they still did not fix it.  The law requires that things be fixed in a timely manner - weeks of not having what I was paying them for was quite enough for them to be breaking that bit of the CGA.

 

And, of course, as soon as I was connected to my new ISP, NNTP worked normally, just as fast as it originally did with Slingshot when I first connected to them.  And it kept on working for all the years I was with that ISP, up until I moved to fibre.


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  Reply # 1915072 8-Dec-2017 10:09
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fe31nz:

 

sorceror:

 

fe31nz:

 

Yes it does when I specifically told them that I needed good NNTP when I signed up.  And it was not just slow, IIRC, it was less than 1% of the usual download speed and what I had been getting for NNTP from them up until they changed a router setting and stopped it working properly.  And when you pay for an Internet connection, you expect to be able to use it for anything that the Internet is capable of.  So if NNTP does not work, then yes, that is not providing a proper Internet connection.  It is only if they tell you when you sign up that some things may not work that they could get away with not providing a fully capable Internet connection.

 

 

of course some things may not work, it's the nature of the internet (and i'm also sure you agreed to this as it's in every ISPs terms and conditions).

 

unless you have in writing from them that they will support your NNTP requirement you don't get to define what 'proper Internet' means.

 

 

It was nothing to do with something not working.  It was to do with them not fixing it.  I tried to get them to fix it.  I really did.  It was clear that it was something they were doing, but they did not ever seem to even try to fix it.  And you seem to not understand consumer law.  If you go into a shop and talk to a salesperson and tell them that you need an x that is able to do y, and they sell you an x where y does not work, or stops working, then they have to fix it or give you your money back.  That is the law.  It works just the same when you are buying a service from someone - if you make it clear that you need the service to do something, and they then agree to provide the service, and then it does not in fact do the something, they are legally required to fix it or refund.  And before you say that they have a clause in their terms and conditions that allows for that, no, the law always overrides any terms in a contract, unless it specifically allows contracting out, which is not the case with the CGA and FTA.  In fact, any terms in a contract that purport to allow them to not do things the law requires may be a violation of the FTA.  And if their contract had said that they could at any time choose to make NNTP not work, then I would not have signed up with them.  It did not.  It had the usual clauses that said that they could not guarantee that they would always be able to provide a 100% working service - I have no problem with that.  But I made sure when I signed up that the things I needed from an Internet connection that were a little different (such as NNTP and running my own SMTP server and needing a static IP address) were available from them.  I made a list and discussed them all with the salesperson when I signed up.  So when they persistently did not fix the NNTP problem, I had every right to tell them that they were were violating their contract with me and that I was changing ISPs - I warned them first, of course, but they still did not fix it.  The law requires that things be fixed in a timely manner - weeks of not having what I was paying them for was quite enough for them to be breaking that bit of the CGA.

 

And, of course, as soon as I was connected to my new ISP, NNTP worked normally, just as fast as it originally did with Slingshot when I first connected to them.  And it kept on working for all the years I was with that ISP, up until I moved to fibre.

 

 

like i said, do you have that in writing? what proof do you have that they agreed to support your weird NNTP service or that they are intentionally not fixing/degrading the performance?


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  Reply # 1915270 8-Dec-2017 13:00
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The arguing ends now please folks. You're going around in circles and not helping with the discussion at all.

Many thanks.




Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

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