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134 posts

Master Geek


  # 234061 11-Jul-2009 13:50
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Alternatively, people could learn to read the fine print.

141 posts

Master Geek
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  # 234067 11-Jul-2009 14:06
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fraseyboy: Alternatively, people could learn to read the fine print.

And how does that help if someone else enters in your mobile number? 

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  # 234073 11-Jul-2009 14:14
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jords12:
fraseyboy: Alternatively, people could learn to read the fine print.


And how does that help if someone else enters in your mobile number?


You mean there's no confirmation or anything?

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  # 234077 11-Jul-2009 14:17
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fraseyboy:
jords12:
fraseyboy: Alternatively, people could learn to read the fine print.


And how does that help if someone else enters in your mobile number?


You mean there's no confirmation or anything?


There are some cases where people reported using a Facebook application which in turn starts a SMS subscription, without the required confirmation.

What was found is that the fineprint on that Facebook application was that answering the questons was equivalent to subscribing to the service, and they could get your mobile number from your Facebook profile.

I guess this goes back to "people should read the fine print".





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  # 234144 11-Jul-2009 17:13
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No, not at all. Vodafone at least have a dual opt-in process that subsciption text companies must follow (both the mobile number being manually entered plus entering a PIN number onto a website - the pin number is sent via SMS to the mobile number you enter).  In our case no pin was entered but still the subscription commenced, which breaks Vodafones terms and conditions.




freitasm:
fraseyboy:
jords12:
fraseyboy: Alternatively, people could learn to read the fine print.


And how does that help if someone else enters in your mobile number?


You mean there's no confirmation or anything?


There are some cases where people reported using a Facebook application which in turn starts a SMS subscription, without the required confirmation.

What was found is that the fineprint on that Facebook application was that answering the questons was equivalent to subscribing to the service, and they could get your mobile number from your Facebook profile.

I guess this goes back to "people should read the fine print".


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  # 234150 11-Jul-2009 17:28
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I agree there's a process and it was broken. My point is that there's a fine print on those applications and Vodafone is not willing to recognise something is broken - which is a poor form in my view.




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  # 234229 11-Jul-2009 22:11
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ZollyMonsta:
rubygirl:

Here's the three main culprits:

1) IQ Quiz (The 10 Minute IQ Quiz)

2) Crush Calculator

3) IQ Quiz (Brain Power)



Yup.. and from what I can tell they are all run by an outfit called 'Mobile Finger' who's 0800 number is answered by another outfit in OZ called 'Mobile Desktop Support' who in turn the 0800 number you call is registered to Sybase 365 based in South Africa.  

Sybase is a US company actually (and Sybase 365 is indeed a subsidiary of theirs).  They wrote the original MS SQL Server way back when.




I finally have fibre!  Had to leave the country to get it though.


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Master Geek


  # 235717 15-Jul-2009 15:55
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I actually reckon this is a pretty valid question.

If the onus was taken off the carrier to passively regulate this type of thing in the same way trademe tries to protect its customers.......and a 'best effort' type approach was adopted - I reckon this would be a good thing.
It doesn't have to be a 2DM thing though... If 1 company does it, all 3 might as well work together on something like this (similar to how abuse@isp works in the ISP industry).

Things like.. Jokeline, Horoscopes, Facebook 'someone has a crush on you' that are not operated in a genuine fashion should be blocked.

Yes they all have fine prints and they all require some sort of opt-in process, but that doesn't mean that you will a) get merchantable quality value b) won't get ripped off in a blatent billshock scam.

Jokeline - I don't know if this company still operates, but they ran a few different 'services' such as Jokeline, Horoscopes and some other dodgy txt services. The first opt-in text, would automatically sign you up to receive a text (usually every day) with a Joke or Horoscope. The problem was, the texts costed upto $4 per text, every day, recycled the same jokes/horoscopes multiple times within a month, did not make it clear how to unsubscribe, did not have any helpdesk or 0800 number to contact.
Telecom and Vodafone couldn't help as they didn't know anything about the company themselves. (I think Telecom used to refer them to a local Auckland number.

Facebook. Iv seen this txt scam on facebook (it seems to be the same one every time). Enter your mobile number, put the verification code in and bam, it sucks your account dry with no value whatsoever.

Services like that definately DO NOT comply with the consumer guarantees act and as they are third party services and the carrier cannot support them - they should be banned.

Obviously care must be taken by the carriers when deciding what is or isnt a rogue text providor.

It would be cool if 2DM could lead this, but I dont think it should be seen as a bonus service like spam filtering. It should be transparent between operators.

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  # 235721 15-Jul-2009 16:16
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Consumer Guarantees Act does not apply to services you are obtaining overseas from an overseas based company (which is effectively what anything on Facebook is going to be).







193 posts

Master Geek


  # 235724 15-Jul-2009 16:20
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The Facebook service has a Terms and conditions written FOR NZ subscribers and by all accounts has an NZ 'presence'.... (not sure to what level though).

But yeah, consumer guarantees act won't apply in many cases - you're right.

These guys are the worst imo
http://www.getyourcrush.com/s/nz_iq10_10_fd972/terms_conditions.php

Call their helpdesk and the line is so rough you cant hear bugger all.. from what I could make out the csr said they were based in australia..



67 posts

Master Geek


  # 237376 21-Jul-2009 09:47
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I have no beef with legitimate SMS services. I am referring to the well-known scams such as IQ-Quiz and similar. These types of scams that do not require anything sent from the mobile phone and they get mobile numbers from Facebook information. Also, I am objecting to the mobile companies' help desks not making it easy for the customer to stop these services - they often give out misleading or incorrect information in the first instance allowing the scamming to continue longer.

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Master Geek
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# 237386 21-Jul-2009 10:33

I think the lesson here is not to publish your mobile number on any public websites, read all fine print on offer and always keep the last message you receive from one of these scams because most of them can be opted out of by sending the word "stop" to their text service.
As for the rest at the end of the day it is a subscription service so unless you (or someone who has your number subscribes you) then the responsiblity of all fees should lie with you and not the telco's for they did not subscribe you, and how would you like it if they interfeared with other parts of your billing like disabling a number you call frequently or stopping you from texting your best friend. 
I agree these TXT scams need to be stopped but infortunately it is not the Telco's fault and they can not shoulder all the blame for this, we as consumers need to be more aware!




67 posts

Master Geek


  # 237391 21-Jul-2009 10:46
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What?! Don't publish your mobile number on a website? I just did a Google search on: +"mobile 021 " +nz

I got 92,000 hits. Are you telling me 92,000 Kiwi's have got it wrong? I have my mobile number on both of my business websites. I have, like those other 92,000 Kiwi's, always thought this was normal practice.

At least on Facebook it is not open to everyone on the Internet.

Are you serious about this? Are all these people being irresponsible? And, of course, this very rough search has only thrown up a fraction of the published New Zealand mobile numbers.

Do you work for a mobile phone company? Is this their stance on why its the customer's fault that they are scammed? i.e. they should not publish their mobile number on the internet.

183 posts

Master Geek


  # 237504 21-Jul-2009 14:19
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rubygirl: 92,000 Kiwi's have got it wrong? 

No, the 4.2 million New Zealanders whose numbers google didn't find have it wrong.


Vodafone shouldn't have to enforce it's double opt in policy, the scammers should just honour it.
You shouldn't have to keep your number secret, Vodafone should protect you.


The scammers and vodafone both dropped the ball.  They will do it again.  That doesn't make it ok.  But it does mean that if you want to avoid similar situations in the future you will need to take some personal responsibility.


Personal responsibility is not about allocating blame it is about protecting yourself from other peoples malicious actions and the incompetence and lack of resources of those who you expect to block those actions.



67 posts

Master Geek


  # 237519 21-Jul-2009 14:32
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bjhoogs:
Personal responsibility is not about allocating blame it is about protecting yourself from other peoples malicious actions and the incompetence and lack of resources of those who you expect to block those actions.


I'm confused - I don't know what it is you are recommending here. I know that Vodafone refuse to block SMS services to particular mobile phones in the same way that land lines can be toll and 0900 barred. Is this what you are referring to?

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