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  # 243570 6-Aug-2009 17:05
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freitasm:
ahmad: I really hate to say it, but it truly worries me when a random member of the public with a keen eye (me) corrects the External Communication Manager of a multi-national.

Now I can't confirm what Paul said, because after all this is reported second hand via Juha (who I don't know).


I know Juha and he's quite capable. I know Paul as well and he's the same.

I don't think it was something to worry about. He came here and corrected the information.

Reality is (and it was) there is an awful lot of plans, enough to confuse anyone. So give him a chance.

I think all those plans should die, die, die and be unified in a single thing with add-ons. It's just "confusion".


Apologies to Paul and juha - I got the email notifications very late due to delayed email inbox and then read the thread on my iPhone. I somehow missed some of the later responses.

All sorted now anyway and original figures stand.

(Note to Paul - please refine your Prepaid plans Laughing I like what 2 Degrees is doing - making it cheaper for those that spend on their mobile accounts to talk and TXT, while ignoring the heavy TXTers that spend nothing more than $10 per month and have their lifestyles subsidised by those that have to pay horrendous costs to talk. 2 Degrees are now simply a data plan short of being a VERY competitive option for Geeks).

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  # 243589 6-Aug-2009 17:40
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freitasm: Reality is (and it was) there is an awful lot of plans, enough to confuse anyone. So give him a chance.

I think all those plans should die, die, die and be unified in a single thing with add-ons. It's just "confusion".


You could say, you need a decoder ring to work out all of Vodafones plans :)

I respect Paul, as much as I can that is for a PR person :) but it is amusing when their plans are so complex that even their spokesperson can't get it right. Why should we be giving Vodafone slack for not being able to explain their horrifically complex plans? Doesn't this simply highlight the issue of using confusion as a marketing tools.

Reminds me of Theresa Gattung's which got secretly recorded saying Telecom "It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool"

Sounds like Vodafone's decided to use the same tactic.





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# 243596 6-Aug-2009 17:59
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exportgoldman:
Reminds me of Theresa Gattung's which got secretly recorded saying Telecom "It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool"




This quote gets misused a lot....

"Think about pricing. What has every Telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine,".

"Goulter says Telecom has never tried to hide this and posted the speech on the internet after it was made."

 TVNZ Article 




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  # 243601 6-Aug-2009 18:01
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cokemaster:
This quote gets misused a lot....

"Think about pricing. What has every Telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine,".

"Goulter says Telecom has never tried to hide this and posted the speech on the internet after it was made."

 TVNZ Article 


Well I stand corrected cokemaster. It was not secretly recorded, but the points in the article about Telco's using confusion as a marketing tool still are very revelant today, as this is highlighed by Vodafone's own spokesperson getting confused about his own companies plans...




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

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  # 243627 6-Aug-2009 18:52
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cokemaster:
exportgoldman:
Reminds me of Theresa Gattung's which got secretly recorded saying Telecom "It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool"




This quote gets misused a lot....

"Think about pricing. What has every Telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine,".

"Goulter says Telecom has never tried to hide this and posted the speech on the internet after it was made."

 TVNZ Article 


The video that went with that was brilliant!

And here it is for those you for whatever reason, didn't see it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrKLNnGfZY

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  # 243628 6-Aug-2009 18:58
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That video takes the quote out of context... :)




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  # 243632 6-Aug-2009 19:02
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Even still, the point is, we all know it's true and still alive today :)

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  # 243881 7-Aug-2009 12:04
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To prove censorship on the internet doesn't work, the story is now on that wiki where you go find censored stuff.

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  # 243890 7-Aug-2009 12:31
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whoa, just goes to show how much telcos make off us

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  # 243917 7-Aug-2009 13:09
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NZHerald talks about the commerce commission censoring NBR over the 2degrees secret info.

I thought confidential deals are a civil issue like firing the person who leaked the information. i never knew it was illegal to leak confidential information. so does that mean any deals made with the commerce commission that both parties want to keep secret is classified information and it is a criminal offence to leak it?

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  # 243929 7-Aug-2009 13:18
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For those of you who missed the NBR report, Wikileaks has the article published.



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  # 244054 7-Aug-2009 20:35
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Some very interesting details, looks like Vodafone got stitched up by a even more savvy operator than themselves.

Looks like 2 Degree's won't have any problems making any money with those termination rates, if they get enough customers they could even be making money off Vodafone like free net did for TelstraClear. Not that I feel like shedding any tears for Vodafone hehe.

The question is, if this knowledge itself is restricted by the commerce commission, how much can we actually discuss here?




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# 283632 18-Dec-2009 08:52
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And the results of the "investigation" into the leak of the confidential agreement between Vodafone and 2degrees mobile:


The Commerce Commission has closed an investigation into a potential breach of a confidentiality order. The investigation followed the disclosure in the Independent and the National Business Review in August 2009 of details of a confidential commercial interconnection agreement between 2degrees and Vodafone.

The Independent article containing this information named Vodafone as the source of the information. The Independent would not provide further details of how it obtained this information, claiming protection under section 68(1) of the Evidence Act from being required to identify a source where an assurance of confidentiality has been provided.

The Commission has been advised by Vodafone that they were satisfied that there was no authorised leak of the confidential information. Vodafone have also provided an assurance to the Commission that they will remind all of their staff that breaches of confidence are unacceptable.

 The Commission has also been advised by 2degrees that they were confident that the leaked information did not come from within 2degrees.

“The Commission has not been able to establish the source of the potential breach” said Dr Ross Patterson, Telecommunications Commissioner. “As a result, and in light of the above assurances, the Commission has decided to close the investigation. However, if further relevant information comes to light, the Commission will consider re-opening the investigation”.

Parties often supply the Commission with information that is highly commercially sensitive. Parties need to be able to trust that the Commission has robust processes in place to ensure that confidential information is treated appropriately.

“The Commission reiterates its expectation that all parties will have processes in place to ensure that confidential information is handled appropriately in the context of Commission investigations. The Commission also expects parties to regularly remind their staff of the importance of preserving the confidentiality of such information,” said Dr Patterson.

On 13 August 2009, the Commission confirmed that commercial interconnection agreements provided to the Commission should still be confidential. This protection remains in place. Any re-publication of the information risks breaching the Commission’s Section 100 order.

Background

Section 15(i) of the Telecommunications Act 2001 incorporates section100 of the Commerce Act Section 100 provides the Commission with powers to prohibit disclosure of information, documents, and evidence. .

Section 100(1) states that the Commission may make an order prohibiting:
(a)     The publication or communication of any information or document or evidence which is furnished or given or tendered to, or obtained by, the Commission in connection with the operations of the Commission:
(b)     The giving of any evidence involving any such information, document, or evidence.

Section 100(4) states that:
Every person who, contrary to any order made by the Commission under subsection (1) of this section, publishes or communicates any information or document or evidence commits an offence and is liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding $4,000 in the case of a person not being a body corporate, and $12,000 in the case of a body corporate.

Only the courts can decide if an offence has been committed and set appropriate penalties.

The confidentiality order in relation to the mobile termination rates investigation is available on the Commission’s website at: Industry Regulation/Telecommunications/Investigations/Mobile Termination Access Services/Confidentiality Order

Under this confidentiality order, information has been classified:
- restricted information – this classification applies under clause 8 of the confidentiality order, where it is certified that this protection is necessary in order to avoid likely unreasonable prejudice to the commercial position of the person who supplied or who is the subject of the Information. Restricted information can be accessed, in accordance with clause 11 of the confidentiality order, by specified persons who have signed the Deed of Undertaking at Schedule 1 to the confidentiality order;
- additional protection – this classification has now been applied to all commercial interconnection agreements, so that certain additional conditions must be met before parties can access this information; and
- Commission only information – the Commission has accepted that some information should be restricted so that only the Commission could view it





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