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67 posts

Master Geek


# 40003 23-Aug-2009 11:14
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A couple of weeks into 2 degrees going live and no sign yet of them signing up the scam premium SMS TXT service companies such as IQ Quiz! Two degrees I love you!

Vodafone and Telecom tell us they can do nothing about these scammers, that they just *have* to take on these scam companies as customers. *Have* to take their share of the loot more like!
Again, yesterday, I spoke to a friend who said his father had just lost $25! And again NOTHING was sent/texted from his phone - he'd simply completed an on-line quiz. All the scam companies need is a mobile phone number, NO PIN required. Even though Paul Brislen of Vodafone keeps insisting that a PIN number is always required to subscribe. Another lie.
How many more Kiwis will Telecom, Vodafone and the Commerce Commission allow to be scammed before Kiwis have had enough and put the pressure on them to do something about it? Some how Telecom and Vodafone have managed to cloud the issue with the Commerce Commission so that this obvious scan can slip under the radar. Surely New Zealand has more need of these millions of $$$ than these foreign scammers.
I'll be switching to 2 degrees just as soon as I get my free SIM - thats the only problem I have with them, the delay in their getting out the SIMs.

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  # 249775 23-Aug-2009 11:31
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Take a look here http://www.2degreesmobile.co.nz/premium-text, 2degrees have them.


Here is a full list of the providers supported



67 posts

Master Geek


  # 249776 23-Aug-2009 11:35
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No, they don't. The scam companies do not appear on this list. Just the legit ones. These are the services that subscribers knowingly sign up for. The lovecalulator IQ Quiz and similar are not on the list. Go you, 2 degrees!!!!!

 
 
 
 




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Master Geek


  # 249797 23-Aug-2009 12:31
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Further to my last reply"

2 degrees has only *6* pages SMS services that they have accepted from companies that they have taken on as their SMS partners
http://www.2degreesmobile.co.nz/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=393a5854-8b5f-45a2-acad-e80ac190449d&groupId=10128

Vodafone has *21* pages SMS services that they have accepted from companies that they have taken on as their SMS partners - most of the extras are possibly dodgy - and many are known to be dodgy.
http://www.vodafone.co.nz/services/txt-and-pxt/premium-interactive-code-details.pdf

While researching this just now, I found this outrageous statement on Vodafone's site:

"The responsibility for your mobile, and the cost of any calls made from your mobile, usually rests with you. This includes Premium TXT Services used by family and friends, even when made without your knowledge. Failure to be able to pay a phone bill could result in the restriction of your telephone service and could reduce your ability to obtain credit in the future."

What they omitted to make clear above is that family and so-called friends can type your number into the internet and you get scammed - then you get harassed from the debt collectors if you don't pay up when you get your inflated account.
**** They don't need your mobile phone to do this ****

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  # 249799 23-Aug-2009 12:38
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Do you have confirmation from 2degrees that they are not infact going to do business with any of these operators?

I was speaking about this issue the other day and from what I understood that isn't their policy. It's simply a case that they haven't yet signed interconnection agreements with many premium SMS providers.

It might be a good opportunity to contact 2degrees, get an official statement from them, and if they are planning on doing business with these operators to try and convince them otherwise.

BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 249803 23-Aug-2009 12:52
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The operators require a confirmation code to be sent to a mobile and a reply confirming the "subscription". Of course you can say scammers will be scammers and simply don't take that step.

The main problem is that operators want the subscriber to prove that SMS wasn't received - pretty hard in many cases right?

In any case, subscription or not, I still think SMS scammers work with the blessings of mobile operators.





2120 posts

Uber Geek


  # 249806 23-Aug-2009 12:56
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I guess they make all the money back from that by charging 9c per txt without options for bundles. Good on you 2 Degrees!



67 posts

Master Geek


  # 249809 23-Aug-2009 13:01
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I *definitely* never sent anything from my phone. My friends father who just got scammed $25 didn't either. Unfortunately he reckons its not worth the $25 chasing it up - probably why this scam continues, laziness! I'm going to try and convince him to take it further or let me take it furhter. Unfortunately, in my case, it was months afterwards before Vodafone would confirm that a PIN must be received back before it is legitimate. By then my prepay records were no longer available to prove that this was not the case.

It would be great if a few others could get 2 degrees not to buckle to the pressure of lots of money by accepting these scams. But I think most people are complacent about this so this nasty little practice continues. And with no pressure, 2 degrees will most likely find the temptation of $$$ too great, no matter that it is their customers that will be scammed.

 
 
 
 




67 posts

Master Geek


  # 249810 23-Aug-2009 13:11
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macuser: I guess they make all the money back from that by charging 9c per txt without options for bundles. Good on you 2 Degrees!

So, Vodafone and Telecom have to scam their customers because they are undercharging? Interesting take on this. So will 2 degress be about to scam and overcharge? We'll have to wait and see.

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  # 249811 23-Aug-2009 13:18
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rubygirl:
macuser: I guess they make all the money back from that by charging 9c per txt without options for bundles. Good on you 2 Degrees!

So, Vodafone and Telecom have to scam their customers because they are undercharging? Interesting take on this. So will 2 degress be about to scam and overcharge? We'll have to wait and see.





I wouldn't take what I said too seriously, but if 2 Degrees does decide to jump on the bandwagon they will be heros of trickery and anti-consumerism.


Obviously once again take what I said with a grain of salt.


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  # 249815 23-Aug-2009 14:09
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Hey just a minute. You guys say you were scammed?? Surely you must have signed up for something. Over the past 15 years of having mobile fones no one I know has been scammed unless they signed up for some service..




Regards,

Old3eyes




67 posts

Master Geek


  # 249820 23-Aug-2009 14:39
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old3eyes: Hey just a minute. You guys say you were scammed?? Surely you must have signed up for something. Over the past 15 years of having mobile fones no one I know has been scammed unless they signed up for some service..


No-one signs up to be scammed - how crazy would that be? Almost as crazy as Vodafone and Telecom ripping off their customer base, but they do that intentionally. The fact is they do not sign up to be scammed; Telecom and Vodafone just step back and allow it to happen. Then they plead innocence and blame their customers. Because Telecom and Vodafone have given this practice the green light, the scammers are getting ever more devious in their tricks for luring unsuspecting mobile customers. Everyone knows you don't give away Credit card numbers but how many people would know that a mobile number is equally able to be used to steal money from people. Almost unversally people believe that it is necessary to text something from a mobile to be charged. Not true. A mobile number is enough - no PIN required. That has to be a scam.

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  # 249880 23-Aug-2009 19:01
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Well then. Don't give your mobile number out. I refuse when someone asks or put the 025 prefix with a dummy number after it if they insist..




Regards,

Old3eyes




67 posts

Master Geek


  # 249897 23-Aug-2009 19:34
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old3eyes: Well then. Don't give your mobile number out. I refuse when someone asks or put the 025 prefix with a dummy number after it if they insist..


You seem to have missed the point - or choose to. The whole thing is a scam and I am congratulating two degrees on not joining in with Vodafone and Telecom in scamming their customer base. Whether one should or should not enter ones phone number into the internet is not the issue hare but it is quite clear that the scammers rely on the fact that not many people know that they can have their prepay cleaned out as soon as they finish typing their mobile number.

If you already know this then good for you. You are obviously a very clever fellow. Go buy yourself a choccy fish and collect $200 for passing go.

So, anyway, I now know this too but the point is three months ago I didn't. Also, Vodafone keeps insisting that it is necessary to PIN a number on your mobile to be scammed and this is just not so.



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  # 249900 23-Aug-2009 19:39
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Question is why are you entering your phone number into a website in the first place? I dont think it's Vodafone or Telecom that are the issue.

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  # 249912 23-Aug-2009 20:46
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Demons rubygirl, give it a rest! I've yet to meet anyone who's actually been legitimately "scammed" via mobile phones, only through their own idiocy. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I have ZERO doubt that they're nowhere near as common as you claim.

Still, I don't know what you're spouting on about, there are a fair whack of "untrustworthy" entities on 2degrees list. E.g. "MobileFun" whose website is merely a terms and conditions page, and charges $7 a message. How about "Blinck" whose terms and conditions allow them to send you advertisements and promotional material, and prohibits you from blocking such advertisements?




I finally have fibre!  Had to leave the country to get it though.


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